071 LPD thread

[Lion]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Well you kind of missed the whole point of LCAC, they are to be seen to contain the element of suprise which is why USN has been using them for decades, They are fast, quite, have a long range, can lift a heavy load and get travel on sea and on land

What element of suprise may I know? and regarding long range? How far do you expect LCAC to be away from breach? 100km?

Yes, but you can't deny putting all eggs on a basket can be dangerous. I don't think first wave of breaching assault by LCAC will be safe.

 

[tphuang]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

ZBD-05 is faster than a LCAC? Or equal?

LCAC is for OTH assaults or operations ... and to transport element that can not swimming for itself, like MBTs and lights vehicles, booggies for SOFs and similar.

LCAC and Z-8 can put a number of marines and the ships still sproaching to the coast, and then ZBD-05.

And I put a mínimum of 1 Z-9 with gun/rocket pods, providing some air protection to Z-8s.

Two waves OTH, and then the swimming vehicles (ot so many, if we considere the small hangar).

And one more question ... why put in risk the 071s approaching the coast? OTH assault, one, two or three waves, and then put the LSTs.

If they can use the 3 071 at the same time, there are 6 Z-8s (25 marines x 6 = 150 marines) and 3 Z-9 (I think that 6 Z-9), and 12 LCAC, capables of put in the beach in one wave a mínimum of 4 MBTs (1 x LCAC), 12 APCs/IFVs ( 2 x LCAC, coservative numbers) and 8-10 booggies and light vehicles.

Per wave.

Second wave can put 8 MBTs and the rest of LCACs can transport IFVs, puching inside.

You can launch 2-3 waves OTH, while your LSTs aproaching the beaches.

With LHDs all job is easier, you can put more and more helos in operations.

View attachment 7663
Something like these, but with 6 Z-8s and 12 LCACs

One thing about the helicopters is that a Type 071 can theoretically carry more than 4 Z-8s for a short mission (like one in Taiwan or around China's near sea). You can put four in the hangar, put like 8 in one of the landing spot and just use one to take-off and land. I remember someone showing a picture how you can lay this out in CDF. The landing deck is large enough to land 2 Z-8 and 1 Z-9 at the same time. Of course, it's not ideal, but do-able in good sea conditions and short range missions.

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

This is where the San Antonio Class has the edge over the Type 071, San Antonios flight deck although shorter is wider than Type 071, in addition the diameter of the CH-46 rotorblade is smaller than in turn compared to the Z8, this allows the SA to land and take off 4 x CH-46 simultaneously all at the same time, it's dangerous and I think it leaves only 18 inches between the rotating blades but USN does this all the time Which allows to transport over 100 marines at the same time

Type 071 length of flight deck is around 70m and in thoery 3 Z8 should fit if angled correctly at the same time but it would be a tough squeeze, which raises the question, why did they make the deck so long but narrow, a little wider and we could be looking at having up to 6 helicopters landing together

PLAN is limted to choice, Maybe the next generation medium sized helicopter can take into account these parameters, widening the flight deck and decreasing the size of the diameter of the rotor blades slightly might be enough for a Type 071B to take 4 helos simultaneously, but really it's not exactly a big deal and does compromise the abilitys of the Type 071 by much

 

[patriota]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

3 071's can send 90 plus ZDB-05's with 630 fully armed soldiers to the beach in the first wave.

LCAC (Chinese 3220/3221) up to 49 KMPH. ZDB-05 24 KMPH, but it can provide fire covers, though you still can have 6 Z-8's.

Again, LCACs are for OTH assault.

You don´t put at risk the basquet ... the ship, nor the LCAC.

If you want the ZDB-05 they need the 071 approaching the beach, and in this moment she is in danger, she is the basquet plenty of eggs.

If you can put a first wave OTH with LCACs and helos, you are fighting now, and approaching for launching the ZDB-05s.

If you put the 071s at the coast line, you have a inmense ship, plenty of men and woman ready to receive the visit a coastal batteries of SSM with a big target in the sea.

LCAC have a risk, but a number of Little sitting ducks approaching the beach isn´t a minus risk.

And again, LCACs can put a number of MBTs in the beach.

 

[patriota]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

This is where the San Antonio Class has the edge over the Type 071, San Antonios flight deck although shorter is wider than Type 071, in addition the diameter of the CH-46 rotorblade is smaller than in turn compared to the Z8, this allows the SA to land and take off 4 x CH-46 simultaneously all at the same time, it's dangerous and I think it leaves only 18 inches between the rotating blades but USN does this all the time Which allows to transport over 100 marines at the same time

Type 071 length of flight deck is around 70m and in thoery 3 Z8 should fit if angled correctly at the same time but it would be a tough squeeze, which raises the question, why did they make the deck so long but narrow, a little wider and we could be looking at having up to 6 helicopters landing together

PLAN is limted to choice, Maybe the next generation medium sized helicopter can take into account these parameters, widening the flight deck and decreasing the size of the diameter of the rotor blades slightly might be enough for a Type 071B to take 4 helos simultaneously, but really it's not exactly a big deal and does compromise the abilitys of the Type 071 by much

You have the answer ... LHD ... and new helos.

Juan Carlos I class can operate 4 heavy helos or 6 medium helos at same time.

No LCACs, but LCM-1, capable of embark a Leo II.

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Yeah I mean Chinas LHD should have no less than 6 helicopter landing spots maybe even 7-8

But you appreciate the value of a LPD when you have 4 helos coming from a disaster relief carrying strechers with medics waiting to attend the injured and all 4 land at the same time and everyone can be attended to simultaneously, I believe USN practices this manoeuvre routinely for disaster relief situations, the excerise might even be part of the commissioning process or was part of the trials and evaluation tests before the 1st San Antonio was commissioned

 

[Lion]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Again, LCACs are for OTH assault.

You don´t put at risk the basquet ... the ship, nor the LCAC.

If you want the ZDB-05 they need the 071 approaching the beach, and in this moment she is in danger, she is the basquet plenty of eggs.

If you can put a first wave OTH with LCACs and helos, you are fighting now, and approaching for launching the ZDB-05s.

If you put the 071s at the coast line, you have a inmense ship, plenty of men and woman ready to receive the visit a coastal batteries of SSM with a big target in the sea.

LCAC have a risk, but a number of Little sitting ducks approaching the beach isn´t a minus risk.

And again, LCACs can put a number of MBTs in the beach.

How do you define the OTH assault? 100km? Precisely ZBD-05 with emphasize on speed with stability of its structure and buoyancy on high sea. It is definitely not for making 071 parking 4-5km away from breach.

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The ZBD2000 uses a planing hull propelled by two water jets achieving water travelling speed much greater than any current amphibious armoured vehicle in the PLA Marine Corps, on top of its enhanced speed it has increased range, allowing it to launch over over-the-horizon assaults.
The vehicle is designed with hydraulic-actuated bow with transom flaps, designed to aid hull skimming across the surface of the water. When activated the bow and transom flaps with the bottom of the hull form a planing surface, allowing the vehicle to go faster from its hydrodynamic drag reduction on the vehicle's hull.
The ZBD2000 features flat, boat-like hull, with 6 road wheels and front/rear rollers. A welded turret is mounted in the centre of the hull, with the powerpack positioned in the front and passenger compartment in the rear.

Plus LCAC can only put a limited number of MBT which makes them too precious given the state of advance anti tank missile available nowadays.

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

With all the talk here about amphibious warfare and LCAC's, does anyone know if the Zubr class LCAC's that China has ordered from the Ukraine have arrived in China yet ?

I think your question was lost in all of the talk about the LCAC

Warship magazine reported few months ago that last year a incident at the Morye shipyard in Ferdosiya in Crimea about a accident in which a overhead crane which collapsed and killed 2 shipyard workers, Morye shipyard is the shipbuilder of the two Zubrs for China

The accident supposedly delayed the construction of the first ship but towards the end of last year the first Zubr was launched and under going sea trials and tests before being handed over to the Chinese, the second Zubr is under construction at the shipyard facility after the overhead crane is repaired and should be following up soon, the 3rd and 4th units are to be built inside China

I'm just wondering how these monster will be transported to China, there will be a high transit fee for this ship

 

[MwRYum]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I'm just wondering how these monster will be transported to China, there will be a high transit fee for this ship

If those semi-submersible freighter can handle them, then that's how they'll be transported. Besides, if you dishing out that kind of smackers for the Zuhr, transit fee would be chunk change.

 

[snake65]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

The accident supposedly delayed the construction of the first ship but towards the end of last year the first Zubr was launched and under going sea trials and tests before being handed over to the Chinese, the second Zubr is under construction at the shipyard facility after the overhead crane is repaired and should be following up soon, the 3rd and 4th units are to be built inside China

The first was used for training of PLAN crews and will be offcially delivered in April, second will follow in June. The 3rd and 4th will be transported to China as kits and will be assembled under supervision of builders from More.