071 LPD thread

[Blitzo]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

China is already effectively deploying task forces to the Arabian Sea. They have the AOR vessels and enough new frigates and destroyers to deploy a much larger and stronger force anytime they choose to do so, along with a couple of SSNs in support if they so desired.

2-4 Type 054As, two of the Sovs, at least one of the 52Cs and one of the 51Cs, along with a 52B and two Type 93 SSNs and a couple of AOR vessels, and a Type 071 or two if the mission needed amphibious/air assault capabilities, would be a strong multi mission capable task force.

At this point I think PLAN can deploy 2-3 054/As, two DDGs from 052B/C/051C/Sovs, one SSN (two tops), one of the newer AORs (and an older one) without straining themselves too much or leaving themselves too defenceless back home. Until they get their 3 or more LPD/LHDs I don't think they'll be comfortable committing an asset like 071 abroad for too long. Of course such a taskforce would be in response to a large crisis from a militarily competent foe rather than a few somalian skiffs where the safety of naval ships is almost guaranteed and can thus allocated for patrol/real life training with less gravity.
A few jiangwei frigates and the refitted 052s could tag along, to add more boats and SSMs along with helicopters and sonar/TAS for ASW.

Once 052Cs reach the half dozen mark and 054As are more happily into the tens we can envision a larger taskforce. The limiting factor is AOR numbers, but thankfully this is one area where PLAN shipyards are more than competent in delivering.

 

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

At this point I think PLAN can deploy 2-3 054/As, two DDGs from 052B/C/051C/Sovs, one SSN (two tops), one of the newer AORs (and an older one). Until they get their 3 or more LPD/LHDs I don't think they'll be comfortable committing an asset like 071 abroad for too long. Of course such a taskforce would be in response to a large crisis from a militarily competent foe rather than a few somalian skiffs where the safety of naval ships is almost guaranteed and can thus allocated for patrol/real life training with less gravity.

Once 052Cs reach the half dozen mark and 054As are more happily into the tens we can envision a larger taskforce.

Well, the third and fourth LPDs have been launched, so I believe if necessary they could certainly committ one.

And there are now three 52Cs plowing the waves, with a fourth and fifth already in the water, so committing two if neccesary is possible...but lets say just one.

So if you had a task force consisting of the following 12 vessels:

Type 054A FFG x 3
Type 52C DDG x 1
Type 51C DDG x 1
Type 52B DDG x 1
Sov EM DDG x 1
Type 071 LPD x 1
AOR x 2
Type 093 SSN x 2

That would be a very strong statement and very powerful force. In a year or two, once you add the carrier to it, you end up with a task force which very few navies on the planet (outside of the US and maybe the French) would be able to counter. Ultimately the UK will be able to, but by that time, the PLAN force may include two carriers and 2-3 52Cs. A QE carrier, SSNs, Daring DDGs and the new Frigates will be very powerful, but they will have so few of them.

As I say, by that time the PLAN could field a dual carrier force with plenty of escorts to counter. By that time, only the US will have sufficient Naval force to counter such a Chinese force.

That of course would be only if their goals were at cross purposes. Can you imagine how powerful a force it would be if the two countries were supporting one another in such a mission? In the future, with terrorism being what it is, and the potential for its proliferation to nation states, such a mission is not out of the question.

 

[i.e.]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Well, the third and fourth LPDs have been launched, so I believe if necessary they could certainly committ one.

And there are now three 52Cs plowing the waves, with a fourth and fifth already in the water, so committing tow if neccesary is possible...but lets say just one.

So if you had a task force consisting of the following 12 vessels:

Type 054A FFG x 3
Type 52C DDG x 1
Type 51C DDG x 1
Type 52B DDG x 1
Sov EM DDG x 1
Type 071 LPD x 1
AOR x 2
Type 093 SSN x 2
.

I think Type 51C and Sovs will stay near home.
They got alot of complaints on their steam plants.

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Before a carrier force is seen it would be nice China to have at least one or two LHDs, LHDS are becoming very popular and it would provide much needed logistics at sea and being flatops can also doubling up as amphibious assault vessels they will prove very valuable for China as they could play many roles

A Chinese LHD which could carry between 16-20 helicopters can have a mixture of Z9C, WZ10, Z8/AC313 and Ka-27

There is no shortage of helos as many believe, as sending out a task force without air over isn't really a good idea

 

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I think Type 51C and Sovs will stay near home.
They got alot of complaints on their steam plants.

Was not aware that both were having trouble. Is it bad enough to keep them from, or be a risk for such a deployment?

If that is the case, then take the 51C and Sov out, and do this:

Type 054A FFG x 3
Type 52C DDG x 2
Type 52B DDG x 1
Type 52 DDG x 1
Type 071 LPD x 1
AOR x 2
Type 093 SSN x 2

Remains a very powerful force...though I would have thought that the two newer Sovs were more reliable than this.

 

[i.e.]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Was not aware that both were having trouble. Is it bad enough to keep them from, or be a risk for such a deployment?

If that is the case, then take the 51C and Sov out, and do this:

Type 054A FFG x 3
Type 52C DDG x 2
Type 52B DDG x 1
Type 52 DDG x 1
Type 071 LPD x 1
AOR x 2
Type 093 SSN x 2

Remains a very powerful force...though I would have thought that the two newer Sovs were more reliable than this.

Not that they are particularly bad,
but diesel and gas turbine plant is less man power intensive than steam plants.
167 has gone to Aden only once I think and it is during early missions. Sovs has never gone.
I don;t see 051C ever going to Aden.

Next Somali coast rotation would see North Sea Fleet finally going to Aden with a 052 (113) and a 054A.
notice again no 051Cs.

Sovs are ok. but the time has passed for them in PLAN. for 051Cs and Sovs dashes in the first and 2nd island chains are ok.

gurhhh, what was soviets thinking when they put together Sovs. They should have just gone with Udaloys.

 

[Blitzo]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Well, the third and fourth LPDs have been launched, so I believe if necessary they could certainly committ one.

The third 071 is launched, but there's no confirmed fourth yet. A few pics supposedly of the fourth were actually older pics of the third being launched, reposted for chinese new year so the situation is rather confusing. I'm not even sure if there is a fourth 071 laid down at all.

And there are now three 52Cs plowing the waves, with a fourth and fifth already in the water, so committing two if neccesary is possible...but lets say just one.

So if you had a task force consisting of the following 12 vessels:

Type 054A FFG x 3
Type 52C DDG x 1
Type 51C DDG x 1
Type 52B DDG x 1
Sov EM DDG x 1
Type 071 LPD x 1
AOR x 2
Type 093 SSN x 2

That would be a very strong statement and very powerful force. In a year or two, once you add the carrier to it, you end up with a task force which very few navies on the planet (outside of the US and maybe the French) would be able to counter. Ultimately the UK will be able to, but by that time, the PLAN force may include two carriers and 2-3 52Cs. A QE carrier, SSNs, Daring DDGs and the new Frigates will be very powerful, but they will have so few of them.

As I say, by that time the PLAN could field a dual carrier force with plenty of escorts to counter. By that time, only the US will have sufficient Naval force to counter such a Chinese force.

I think a smaller taskforce, maybe consisting of two, three DDGs at the most would be more realistic in the near term, without significantly biting into the PLAN's backyard strength.
The french can currently put forward a formidable group of ships, but one such taskgroup can be half their modern navy. Although don't exactly have to worry about protecting waters close to home...

That of course would be only if their goals were at cross purposes. Can you imagine how powerful a force it would be if the two countries were supporting one another in such a mission? In the future, with terrorism being what it is, and the potential for its proliferation to nation states, such a mission is not out of the question.

Indeed. A few more years and maybe decades to wait until such a situation can arise, but there is certainly more scope for military cooperation between the USA and PRC in the midterm future.

 

[escobar]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Well, the third and fourth LPDs have been launched, so I believe if necessary they could certainly committ one.

And there are now three 52Cs plowing the waves, with a fourth and fifth already in the water, so committing two if neccesary is possible...but lets say just one.

So if you had a task force consisting of the following 12 vessels:

Type 054A FFG x 3
Type 52C DDG x 1
Type 51C DDG x 1
Type 52B DDG x 1
Sov EM DDG x 1
Type 071 LPD x 1
AOR x 2
Type 093 SSN x 2

That would be a very strong statement and very powerful force. In a year or two, once you add the carrier to it, you end up with a task force which very few navies on the planet (outside of the US and maybe the French) would be able to counter. Ultimately the UK will be able to, but by that time, the PLAN force may include two carriers and 2-3 52Cs. A QE carrier, SSNs, Daring DDGs and the new Frigates will be very powerful, but they will have so few of them.

I think Russian Navy could be able to counter this task force.

---------- Post added at 11:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 PM ----------

That of course would be only if their goals were at cross purposes. Can you imagine how powerful a force it would be if the two countries were supporting one another in such a mission? In the future, with terrorism being what it is, and the potential for its proliferation to nation states, such a mission is not out of the question.

I would not bet on it.

 

[SinoSoldier]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Was not aware that both were having trouble. Is it bad enough to keep them from, or be a risk for such a deployment?

If that is the case, then take the 51C and Sov out, and do this:

Type 054A FFG x 3
Type 52C DDG x 2
Type 52B DDG x 1
Type 52 DDG x 1
Type 071 LPD x 1
AOR x 2
Type 093 SSN x 2

Remains a very powerful force...though I would have thought that the two newer Sovs were more reliable than this.

Hmm, I don't think that the Type 052 will make it on there simply because they have nil capability. I've always wondered if the six planned Type 052Cs will be split equally among the two conventional carrier groups. It is also possible that the Type 095, which is rumored to be in construction, will become the primary escort. BTW, I'm curious about your opinion on a potential 052D, the rumored Sino Burke, and its suitability for such a task.

 

[Blitzo]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

^ The refitted 052s would not be the centre of a battlegroup or provide area air defence -- that's the job of 052C or even 054A. Instead they will rather make up the numbers and provide additional anti surface and anti submarine weapons.

A ship with sixteen AShMs capable of land attack, two helicopter hangars for ASW, and probably refitted with the same TAS as the 052C and 054A (as its VDS was removed), and the pair of Type 730s are not to be trifled with. Under the cover of 052C, the 052s will bring benefits for the taskforce.

And we're talking ships currently in the inventory. 052D and 095 are a few years away yet and we still don't have a clear picture on whether 052D will be an Arleigh Burke analogue.