056 class FFL/corvette

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Schumacher

Senior Member
Mysterre said:
It's an assumption, IMO more than bourne out by the fact that even as 093 rolled off the docks the PLAN was already trying to work on a 095 due to their dissatisfaction with the 093. Problem? Now let's have you elaborate on how much you know of PLAN and USN subs.
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That's a very poor assumption to make. ASW is dependent on techs, tactics, sea conditions which are some of the most complex and classified of military matters.
To dismiss PLAN's use of subs in ASW like you did based on some vague ideas about 095, 093 indicates very limited knowledge on the subject.
 
Mysterre

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
Schumacher said:
That's a very poor assumption to make. ASW is dependent on techs, tactics, sea conditions which are some of the most complex and classified of military matters.
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ASW is dependent most of all on technology and experience, both of which the PLAN lack compared to the USN. The assumption is more than reasonable. It's only unreasonable to diehard fanboys, who will also tend to think things like the 093 is equivalent to the Seawolf or Virginia, or probably even the 688i. In reality, a 093 trying to hunt one of these subs would probably get its face pushed in. There will come a day where I will no longer feel comfortable making this assumption, but today is not that day.

Schumacher said:
To dismiss PLAN's use of subs in ASW like you did based on some vague ideas about 095, 093 indicates very limited knowledge on the subject.
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Don't twist my words, that's a sign of weakness of mind. I did not say PLAN subs could not be used in ASW, only that PLAN SSN's would likely die trying to kill USN subs. If you cannot imagine other scenarios where PLAN SSN's could perform ASW, then I would say that your limited knowledge on the subject is showing through.
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
Mysterre said:
Perhaps this one:
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This would probably fit inside a single deck UAV hangar on the 056. It looks like it has a speed of 161km/hr, payload capacity of 80kg and a range of 150+km. Enough for several sonobuoys or a dipping sonar, but definitely not a torpedo.
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Yeah but the darn thing could last for only 10 minutes though. It needs an improve fuel tank and motor to carry out bigger capacity payloads.
 
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Schumacher

Senior Member
Mysterre said:
ASW is dependent most of all on technology and experience, both of which the PLAN lack compared to the USN. The assumption is more than reasonable. It's only unreasonable to diehard fanboys, who will also tend to think things like the 093 is equivalent to the Seawolf or Virginia, or probably even the 688i. In reality, a 093 trying to hunt one of these subs would probably get its face pushed in. There will come a day where I will no longer feel comfortable making this assumption, but today is not that day.

Don't twist my words, that's a sign of weakness of mind. I did not say PLAN subs could not be used in ASW, only that PLAN SSN's would likely die trying to kill USN subs. If you cannot imagine other scenarios where PLAN SSN's could perform ASW, then I would say that your limited knowledge on the subject is showing through.
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Just some new words saying the same as your last post. How would PLAN subs 'get its face pushed in' or 'die'
against USN subs ? ASW is much more than just this vs that and one certainly don't learn it from wiki you know ?
You seem to take it personally but you're not arguing against me, but against PLAN who use their subs in ASW and do see USN as a rival.
So less fanboyish words and more details please. And it's okay to admit you don't know much beyond the names of subs, like I said, few have detailed knowledge in this area.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Mysterre said:
It's an assumption, IMO more than bourne out by the fact that even as 093 rolled off the docks the PLAN was already trying to work on a 095 due to their dissatisfaction with the 093. Problem? Now let's have you elaborate on how much you know of PLAN and USN subs.
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So the US just gives up and don't bother to develop something better after they have finished developing something?

There being work done on further ships/planes/tanks/whatever is no indication that the current generation is somehow unsatisfactory.

That is a perfect example of a theory looking for evidence to support it.

Besides, shouldn't all this sub talk be in the subs thread?
 
SampanViking

SampanViking

The Capitalist
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Super Moderator
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OK gents lets not get hung up again on bad old territory. People have opinions that are unlikely to change until new infor comes into the public domain, so there is no need to get hung up over it.

Lets move the conversation on please
 
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hmmwv

Junior Member
Mysterre said:
Perhaps this one:
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This would probably fit inside a single deck UAV hangar on the 056. It looks like it has a speed of 161km/hr, payload capacity of 80kg and a range of 150+km. Enough for several sonobuoys or a dipping sonar, but definitely not a torpedo.
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Then it's not gonna work they need something that can deliver at least one torpedo at a distance farther than a MK48's range. So they need a UAV with at least 250kg of payload for it to haul around a Yu7. The SUV200 reportedly to have a 200kg payload but I believe it's a mistake, it should be more like 100kg, however this is one step in the right direction.
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If the payload can be boosted to 300kg, even if that means a larger and more expensive air frame I think the capability improvement (carrying both sonobuoy and torpedo) is worth it.
 
Mysterre

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
hmmwv said:
Then it's not gonna work they need something that can deliver at least one torpedo at a distance farther than a MK48's range. So they need a UAV with at least 250kg of payload for it to haul around a Yu7. The SUV200 reportedly to have a 200kg payload but I believe it's a mistake, it should be more like 100kg, however this is one step in the right direction.
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If the payload can be boosted to 300kg, even if that means a larger and more expensive air frame I think the capability improvement (carrying both sonobuoy and torpedo) is worth it.
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The one I listed has a duration of 4 hours per the article. It stayed aloft for only 10 minutes as part of the test. Nonetheless, I do agree it is definitely in the interests of the PLAN to get a 300kg payload rotary UAV that is about 1 deck high and not much wider, otherwise the 056 will be forced to undergo significantly more drastic changes to accomodate it. BTW you can get a dipping sonar for ~50kg, and sonobuoys for 8-10kg each. The SUV200 is already close to the height of one deck. A little wider is possible, for maybe a slightly bigger engine, but who knows if the space between the torpedo launchers is enough to fit a UAV capable of lifting 300kg.
 
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