056 class FFL/corvette

Status
Not open for further replies.
now noticed the tweet
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!





Huangpu shipyard launched 45th Type 056 corvette Bazhong/巴中 at the beginning of March, HDZH shipyard launched 46th 056 on 17 March.

DYvfGf9WsAAO3ik.jpg
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Getting crews, its a combination of new recruit or new blood plus old blood transferred from retiring vessels. So one question, how many of the older littoral combatants like Type 037 Houjians are still there. Or Type 053H2 and older ships. This segment can feed the littoral combatant fleet.

For destroyer crews, I believe if the four Sovremenny goes into refit, there are crews enough for four and a half Type 052D. 350 heads for the Sov, 280 heads for a Type 052D. If we put the two Type 052B into refitting, that will release two sets of crews for two more Type 052D.

The refitting of the rest of the Sovs and the Type 052B may take a few more years, and when they are done they will get brand new crews.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Getting crews, its a combination of new recruit or new blood plus old blood transferred from retiring vessels. So one question, how many of the older littoral combatants like Type 037 Houjians are still there. Or Type 053H2 and older ships. This segment can feed the littoral combatant fleet.

For destroyer crews, I believe if the four Sovremenny goes into refit, there are crews enough for four and a half Type 052D. 350 heads for the Sov, 280 heads for a Type 052D. If we put the two Type 052B into refitting, that will release two sets of crews for two more Type 052D.

The refitting of the rest of the Sovs and the Type 052B may take a few more years, and when they are done they will get brand new crews.

What the challenges for PLAN to recruit good smart highly educated new blood crews ? I know there are so many smart graduates (millions) enter the job market every year .. are they what PLAN want?
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
What the challenges for PLAN to recruit good smart highly educated new blood crews ? I know there are so many smart graduates (millions) enter the job market every year .. are they what PLAN want?

Yes. But to get them to enlist to you rather than the job market, you need to offer better pay and benefits. But note that in China, there is still poverty and people want to escape from it. Some people see enlisting in the military as a way out from poverty and finding their place in the world.

What competes for crews? The Chinese merchant navy of course.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The global civilian shipping slump following the 2008 financial crash didn’t just affect shipbuilders.

There would have been a lot of people in training to become sailors for those expected new civilian merchant ships that never happened.

I have said many times that China has been using its naval expansion like a government stimulus programme. One of the key rationals behind that is to help maintain social harmony by avoiding massive unemployment. While that primarily applies to the shipbuilding industry and layoffs, the Chinese government also sees job creation as part of parcel of that overall mission.

And it just so happens that with the PLAN expansion, new naval jobs are created in addition to the shipyard jobs those naval contracts are helping to keep secure.

Some have criticised the high crew count on PLAN ships, but I think it may well be that the PLAN has made a choice to not go with as much automation as technically possible to allow them to absorb more of the surplus labour.

I personally think PLAN ships are deliberately overcrewed to a certain extent in peacetime.

Not only does that serve to help lower unemployment, it also helps maintain crew moral by reducing workload and pressure on deployments. It also can help to provide a surge capacity where crews on existing ships could be stripped back to allow the rapid expansion of the fleet in times of crisis or war.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
The merchant marine can also be a good source of recruitment, especially when economic times are hard for the shipping business. Plus you already have a ready base of people who already have sea legs, knows how to live inside a ship, and some basic experience in operating a ship, as well as an understanding of working under a strict command structure.

Globally, the merchant marine is populated dominantly by nationalities whose people seeks to escape poverty.

Now as for the PLAN having manning issues, and why have those Type 052D haven't been commissioned yet, I also have a number of theories.

1. They stopped posting and covering commissioning news. Maybe they want to make the PLAN look less aggressive or imperialistic. However, we can see if a ship is truly operational or not once they have completely moved out of the shipyard and into a PLAN base. Does it appear that some of the new 052Ds have gained pennants recently?

2. Commissioning of the 052Ds suddenly has taken lower priority, because you decided to suck the crews out and deploy them somewhere else. What ships could suck this up? The new carrier for example. Or the Type 055. Or both. You also have two Type 071 LPDs.

3. PLAN may also have been prioritizing Type 056s as a crucial part of its Great Wall of the Sea. This can explain why such a huge number is built in a few years. Not just for a sovereignty picket line ship, but also to use the seas as a bastion for its ballistic missile submarines. Its similar to the Soviet bastion strategy, which frigates like the Krivak and the Riga class played an important component.

It should be noted, that the Rigas in turn, starting with the first few kits that were delivered to China, were among the first ships of the PLAN, as Type 01. Reversed engineered, this started a long evolutionary line of ships that led to the Jianghus and Jiangweis, and which the Type 056 is finally their successor. The Type 056 is modernizing, for what has been, the main part of the traditional brown water PLAN that were filled and modeled after what the Soviets refer to as a "guard" ship.

The Krivak class frigates? The corresponding match to that would be the Type 054A frigates, which also again, is high priority.

This really isn't to say that the 052Ds are less important, but maybe they can get 054As and 056s faster into the water for the short term, then eventually commission in more 052Ds.

As for the employment strategy, I also believe in that, that naval shipbuilding is and always has been about jobs --- its been demonstrated continually with other nations as well. But in this case, China has over 1600 shipyards, and only a very small number are certified to do warships. Naval shipbuilding as an employment strategy is like that Dutch boy trying to plug leaks in the dam with his hand. Sooner or later you have to consolidate and pick winners, and allow the rest to rest.

China's shipbuilding are consolidated into two large mother companies, CSSC and CSIC. CSSC handles the south side, CSIC the north side. CSSC handles the Type 052 series destroyer, the LPDs, the LSCs, the frigates and the corvettes. CSIC the Type 051 series destroyer, the carriers and the submarines. At some point they decided to share the Type 052D (Type 052C was CSSC), so Dalian can build the Type 052D while putting the Type 051 series to rest, and combine their resources for the Type 055. In exchange CSSC will start building submarines too, starting with Yuans at Jiangnan.

So basically, Jiangnan, Huangpu, and Hudong are CSSC, while Dalian, Huludao and Wuhu are CSIC.

Larger and more complex warships --- destroyers, carriers, submarines --- will benefit only the largest and most technologically advanced of the shipyards.

As an employment strategy you need something to make better use of the smaller shipyards, and that's where the corvette and frigate building comes in. One has to make full use of all capacities, both large and small shipyards.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I believe there is a correlation between displacement and seniority within the PLAN. Whereby new crews and officers start off on the smaller stuff like 022s, and more increasingly, 056s before getting promoted to bigger displacement ships like 054As, 052s and 055 etc after they have proven themselves.

The pace of the 056 construction and commissioning is probably going to stay much higher than the bigger ships because in a way, these are being used as a training fleet to get crews up to a point where they are ready to move onto something bigger, that is more complex and tend to sent out on longer deployments.

Think of it as both a recruitment and selection process, whereby the PLAN can fairly reliably decided who amongst the new recruits are suitable for the extra training and investment needed for the top of the line ships as they observe how they perform on the 056.

There is, of course also an operational need for the 056, especially in ASW. And they will be perfect for the SCS should tensions ever warrant their permanent forward deployment.

But we have to remember that the Chinese coast guard has been seeing a similar explosive growth spell that rivals if not exceeds that of the PLAN.

It is these ships that are often being used to feed the medium and smaller sized yards, who tend to not get noticed because they don’t build sexy sexy warships.

This huge expansion of the Chinese coast guard has, in many ways, taken over a lot of the traditional patrol responsibilities of the PLAN in brown and green waters.

And even in those traditional light frigate/corvette green and brown water zones, we are seeing 054s and 052s shadowing foreign ships and fleets, not 056s.

When that aspect is considered, the 056 expansion rate makes most sense from a training POV rather than operational prospective. Because there is neither the need, nor evidence that the 056 fleet are being used in heavy intensity routine green and brown water patrolling duties like the old Soviet bastin strategy. Not in peacetime in any case.
 

Rachmaninov

Junior Member
Registered Member
Some have criticised the high crew count on PLAN ships, but I think it may well be that the PLAN has made a choice to not go with as much automation as technically possible to allow them to absorb more of the surplus labour.

I personally think PLAN ships are deliberately overcrewed to a certain extent in peacetime.

Not only does that serve to help lower unemployment, it also helps maintain crew moral by reducing workload and pressure on deployments. It also can help to provide a surge capacity where crews on existing ships could be stripped back to allow the rapid expansion of the fleet in times of crisis or war.

Wouldn't it make more sense to reduce workload by having more automation and allowing the crew to take turns for holidays? This would boost morale as much as anything and also enable the PLAN to have 'spare crews' for wartime use.

I still suspect they weren't able to reach the desired automation levels as yet, although no doubt they're working towards that target.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top