056 class FFL/corvette

xiabonan · Sep 19, 2014

A.Man said:
A Side Note of 056's:

437厂(Hudong Zhonghua)这回牛叉一把，在056型建造质量评比中，得“双第一”：已交付的，583舰“上饶”号在海军组织的同型舰船综合质量评比中荣获第一名；待交付的，588舰“泉州”号以978的高分名列第一。

Auto Translation:

437 plant (Hudong Zhonghua) this time in the lime light, built in 056 quality evaluation, was "double first": already delivered 583 ship "Shangrao" was awarded first prize in the same type of ship Navy comprehensive assessment of the quality of the organization; to be delivered, the 588-ship "Quanzhou" was ranked first with a score of 978.

Let me tidy it up a bit.

Plant 437 (Hudong) really shines this time. They got a "double first" during the assessment and comparison of construction quality (across all plants) of Type 056. For those (ships) already commissioned, 583 "Shang Rao" was ranked first in the Navy's overall quality assessment for the 056. For those waiting to be commissioned, 588 "Quan Zhou" was ranked first.

PanAsian · Sep 20, 2014

plawolf said:
It's all down to design priorities.

The only place they could have put a full-blooded CIWS on the 056 is where the HQ10 is now. And I think we can all agree that the HQ10 is a superior choice to any gun based CIWS they coils have mounted in its place.

Putting gun CIWS where the 054A has their's amidships would have necessitated an entire redesign of his main superstructure and would have eaten up a lot of very limited real estate on the ship.

As Bltizo already pointed out, an 056 should never find itself needing to hold off saturated air attacks by its lonesome.

These ships are designed for low operation in low intensity combat environments and/or against technologically challenged foes.

Under such conditions and against such foes, the RWS are a few more useful addition while something like a Type 730 would have just been a waste.

While I agree that the 056's designated role is that of an OPV they need to be well-armed enough to be useful (surviving being a target of opportunity and successfully attacking targets of opportunity) in a full fledged conflict as well otherwise they may as well be cannon fodder. I think it should have been designed to carry up to 8 main missiles rather than 4, they can always carry less when they want to, even the 022 carries 8.

asif iqbal · Sep 20, 2014

PanAsian said:
While I agree that the 056's designated role is that of an OPV they need to be well-armed enough to be useful (surviving being a target of opportunity and successfully attacking targets of opportunity) in a full fledged conflict as well otherwise they may as well be cannon fodder. I think it should have been designed to carry up to 8 main missiles rather than 4, they can always carry less when they want to, even the 022 carries 8.

If a OPV is having to use its anti ship missiles that tells you something is seriously wrong

4 is more than enough for its purpose and a pretty heavy offensive punch

This is a warship not like the Type 022 which is a FAC two different units two totally different roles

This ship would struggle in deep blue water operations and as such it does not require a heavy anti ship missile requirement

As a matter of fact I think Type 056 is good strategic thinking it will free up larger FFG and DDG

The Royal Navy should employ something like this to free up Type 45 and future Type 26 units

plawolf · Sep 20, 2014

PanAsian said:
While I agree that the 056's designated role is that of an OPV they need to be well-armed enough to be useful (surviving being a target of opportunity and successfully attacking targets of opportunity) in a full fledged conflict as well otherwise they may as well be cannon fodder. I think it should have been designed to carry up to 8 main missiles rather than 4, they can always carry less when they want to, even the 022 carries 8.

Not every ship in the fleet has to do very task. A modern fleet is all about synergies and co-operative engagement.

In a full scale conflict scenario, the 56s will likely not be used, and even if they were, their role will be very specialised as likely an ASW screen/war hound for the heavier ships.

The 56 would rely on the likes of 052C/D and even the 054As for its long to medium range air defence, with air power and dedicated ship killers like the 022s would be off doing the ASuW work.

Considering that in those scenarios, the 56's SAMs and AShMs should be a last resort to catch any leakers, it's weaponise suit it's fine, especially when you consider 56s will likely be hunting in packs.

Hell, if the PLAN decide to incorporate 56s into a blue water battle group, they might not carry any AShMs at all, and instead carry ASROCs instead to make it a dedicated ASW asset.

PanAsian · Sep 20, 2014

plawolf said:
Not every ship in the fleet has to do very task. A modern fleet is all about synergies and co-operative engagement.

In a full scale conflict scenario, the 56s will likely not be used, and even if they were, their role will be very specialised as likely an ASW screen/war hound for the heavier ships.

The 56 would rely on the likes of 052C/D and even the 054As for its long to medium range air defence, with air power and dedicated ship killers like the 022s would be off doing the ASuW work.

Considering that in those scenarios, the 56's SAMs and AShMs should be a last resort to catch any leakers, it's weaponise suit it's fine, especially when you consider 56s will likely be hunting in packs.

Hell, if the PLAN decide to incorporate 56s into a blue water battle group, they might not carry any AShMs at all, and instead carry ASROCs instead to make it a dedicated ASW asset.

In a full scale conflict it is a waste if the 056 is not to be used mainly because it cannot survive. I am pretty sure in a full scale conflict the PLAN still plans to use 056s for anti-sub duty patrolling within the 1st island chain and I think it'll do its job OK.

However given the first rate subs that the 056 will be facing on top of all the other threats it seems to be a budget-first error in judgement to only arm it with 4 main missiles. I am basically doubting the 056's ability to shoot 2 main missiles and score a hit before scooting, I count only 2 since its missiles are not VLS and the ship will need to be aligned with the angle of attack and it will not have time to re-align itself to fire a second salvo if it wants to survive an assumed concurrent attack from its target. A salvo of 4 main missiles would be a better bet for scoring a hit on a first rate opponent.

Blitzo · Sep 20, 2014

056 would never operate in a high intensity environment without support from FFGs and DDGs, and it is not meant to be on the "front lines".

Against a peer navy, 056's HQ-10 and YJ-83s are only for self defence when they may unluckily happen to encounter an enemy ship or helicopter while conducting their own ASW or patrol duties relatively close to home.

If 056s are forced to defend themselves against burkes or super hornets then something would already have gone terribly wrong.

youngtomous · Sep 21, 2014

Bltizo said:
056 would never operate in a high intensity environment without support from FFGs and DDGs, and it is not meant to be on the "front lines".

Against a peer navy, 056's HQ-10 and YJ-83s are only for self defence when they may unluckily happen to encounter an enemy ship or helicopter while conducting their own ASW or patrol duties relatively close to home.

If 056s are forced to defend themselves against burkes or super hornets then something would already have gone terribly wrong.

If 056 fight with bunch ?056 is mass production.So if o56 combat with like 6 056s.Then it also can make something.

joshuatree · Sep 21, 2014

PanAsian said:
I.....However given the first rate subs that the 056 will be facing on top of all the other threats it seems to be a budget-first error in judgement to only arm it with 4 main missiles. .....

Bltizo said:
.....Against a peer navy, 056's HQ-10 and YJ-83s are only for self defence when they may unluckily happen to encounter an enemy ship or helicopter while conducting their own ASW or patrol duties relatively close to home...

Why is the assumption that in a war scenario, 056s will be dispatched alone and not in a pack? Others have already stated that it can be accompanying a frigate or destroyer. But I haven't seen anyone mention 056s traveling in a pack.

And what battle scenario are we talking about? WW3? Or a regional conflict with its neighbors in SE Asia? These factors affect the argument about 056's survivablity.

Blitzo · Sep 21, 2014

056s probably will conduct ASW and patrol missions in small groups, but even then, it isn't designed to operate without support from heavier ships, and it certainly isn't meant to seek out engagements with heavier enemy ships.

Sure, if they operate in a group they'll probably have a better chance of surviving that kind of contact, but even then they will not be on the front lines by any stretch of the imagination.

--

As for scenario, everything I've said so far is in context of facing a peer navy, in a high intensity environment. USN, JMSDF, maybe ROCN.
Obviously, the less capable the opfor is the more relatively useful 056 will be. If they're facing VPN 056s will be able to hit far more competitively. Hell, if they're facing the Phillippines Navy, a flotilla of 056s protected by an 054A could give a run for their money.

PanAsian · Sep 21, 2014

joshuatree said:
Why is the assumption that in a war scenario, 056s will be dispatched alone and not in a pack? Others have already stated that it can be accompanying a frigate or destroyer. But I haven't seen anyone mention 056s traveling in a pack.

And what battle scenario are we talking about? WW3? Or a regional conflict with its neighbors in SE Asia? These factors affect the argument about 056's survivablity.

I specifically mentioned 056s vs top tier hostile subs, which no one acknowledged. Of course 056s won't of their own volition be on the front lines against hostile major surface combatants but this is not trench warfare in WW1, this is 21st century naval combat the frontline gets brought to you especially by subs.

056 class FFL/corvette

xiabonan

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PanAsian

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asif iqbal

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plawolf

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PanAsian

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Blitzo

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youngtomous

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joshuatree

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Blitzo

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PanAsian

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