056 class FFL/corvette
- Thread starter dingyibvs
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It may be new...but almost certainly is not a high-end advanced sonar suitable for larger combatants.
Perhaps they have developed a scaled down version for their coastal vessels which gives them more capability than they had, but is specifically for that environment.
Time will tell...but this "version" of the Type 056 is certainly something different from what we have seen in the bulk of the builds to date. Beyond that, most of it is specualtion as to what those changes we can see actually represent.
Can you see if they have a port for a towed decoy like the Nixie?
It is much more than physics. Each vessel wil have a unique set of acoustic anomalies and thus have a unique signature. In order to get all of that, you would have to have a very sophisticated program to mimic them.
Sorry but the shear scale of what you are proposing is monumental.
Basically either dismantling and refitting hundreds of small fishing boats, or purpose building new decoys to those very specific acoustic signatures.
Then you have to deploy them and control them appropriately, while at the same time allowing for all the "real" fishing boats and other commercial traffic.
Even then, unless you are thinking of deploying these over the entirety of the China Sea, an SSN or a Japanese or Vietnamese SSK will do one of three things:
1) Identify your decoys for what they are because they do not match any specific or even general signature.
2) If they cannot ID them, then simply maneuver around them and come at the target area from a different direction.
3) If the specific target of the mission is unable to be reached, then "Charlie Mike," to the alternate area of operation entirely.
Again, for the PLAN to successfully do what you are proposing over large segments of the China Sea would be much more expensive, and much more technically challenging than you are suggesting here. And it would be a logistical nightmare to the point of not being able to be effectively done.
I believe there are some decoys that could be employed in very specific circumstances to protect point targets of interest...but even then, it is a sophisticated effort to try and mimic what the US or other nation already has specifically recorded as a specific Type 056 signature...because that is what we are talking about here, the individual vessel's signature because they all have their unique anomalies...and that is what the US is constantly doing, tagging the unique characteristics of each vessel (Corvette, FFG, DDG, SSN, SSK, LPD, etc.) they come across and then building their data base accordingly.
1st it has to match the very specific information they have for the Type 056 in general, and the US and Japanese are very, very good, and have decades of experience doing this. If the "decoy," gets past that (and that is not an easy task in the least), then they will see specifically which vessel it is based on the data base they have. They know the build rates and what is being constructed just as we do...in fact, much better. So, very quickly they will catch on if it matches nothing they have, and if there are so many of them, unless they can make it mimic the actual acoustic anomalies of a specific vessel...which is, as I have indicated, very, very difficult to do.
So, all of that would have to be taken into account. A very difficult thing to do over they types of area you are proposing.
IMHO, a better approach would be to try and have a much smaller number of specific decoys for specific "targets" the PLAN wants to protect and address them on a more specific basis.
I never thought of that Jeff but if you set up a program as proposed with a thousand fishing boats you would be able to automate a large part of the recording and mimicking of the 056's. A thousand boat program might be as expensive as twice a hundred boat program. And routing the decoys can also be automated. If a submarine hears ten identical ships around it and knows only one is dangerous, but not which one, what should it do?
I'm not convinced it will be useful, but technology is always improving so who knows?
I'm not convinced it will be useful, but technology is always improving so who knows?
The bridge looks convincingly different, especially when you look at the picture in #1957.
Fair points.
I'd think it would be worth creating a very sophisticated decoy modelling programme, because the it is a straightforward and therefore cheap engineering exercise.
Plus the decoy programme doesn't have to be perfect. It just needs to be able to cast enough doubt at a range of 20km or so.
As you say, command and control will be difficult. The counterpoint is that they don't have to exercise tight control, because they'll be lost amongst the other 20000-odd fishing boats, and the average decoy fishing boat density means they can visually eyeball almost patch of sea. It also means a submarine could come across one of them every hour, and have to waste 5-10minutes to confirm it is a fishing boat or a corvette.
And with Corvettes coming out every month, what are the chances that a Type-56 might not get its acoustic signature recorded, particularly if the submarines are occupied elsewhere?
As for the smaller number of specific decoys for specific "targets" - I think that can be taken as a given.
franco-russe
Senior Member
The 056 that was docked at Shenjia Navy Yard, Shanghai, was HD4, which does not have the stern opening for the Ukrainian Bronza-ME-Lugan VDS.
It would be odd if there was anything special about the sonar dome. We have seen the domes of those built at Huangpu, they seem to be the same size as that of the 054's.
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lcloo
Captain
So they have 3 versions of 056 then.
1. Basic version.
2. Basic version with raised bridge ceiling but no stern opening for VDS.
3. ASW version with raised bridge ceiling and stern opening for VDS.
Looks like they are improving/modifying as they go on building 056 series.
sorry, where do you get the conclusion that the stern opening is for that Ukrainian VDS?
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