056 class FFL/corvette

So VDS then.

As for weapons, most ship borne ASW weapons have relatively short range so you'll be playing a dangerous game if you let a sub that close. Nevertheless 056 does feature two triple torpedo launchers which isn't shabby.
Sub hunting is better done with choppers or even MPA. 056 may work with ships with hangars or shore based Y-8FQ

tphuang said:

the opening looks about the same size as the one we see for the most recent 054A and 052D. It looks different than the opening we saw for earlier 054A and 052C

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Would you mind posting or pointing me in the direction of a picture of the similar opening on a recent 054A? Is it in the stern of the 054A?

PanAsian said:

Would you mind posting or pointing me in the direction of a picture of the similar opening on a recent 054A? Is it in the stern of the 054A?

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http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/054-series-frigate-thread-2-a-162-4149.html#post248934

A.Man said:

The Fifth 056 of Hudong

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So this new anti-sub variant (?), other than the obvious modification at the aft for the deployment of TAS or VDS, another thing I can spot is its bridge structure: it seems to be taller than the earlier (baseline) variant which only about as tall as the hatch door, this one seems to be about half a floor higher...

adeptitus said:

I think it's probably beyond speculation that all those holes and doors in the back is likely for towed sonar equipment. Though this ship could be a prototype or test platform instead of new serial production variant.

What would be speculative is what kind of ASW weapons the ship would carry.

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Given the track record of the 056 program so far, I don't think this is a prototype or test platform. All components on this ship are from mature designs. So this will probably be production going forward. You are right on speculating what kind of ASW weapons this unit will have. But so far, mostly everything else on the ship looks the same so I think it's yet another design change that may be applied retroactively to the other units like how they re-did the bow and the smokestack. They probably spent some time either on computers or with a mockup to hash out accommodation for this TAS/VDS. It looks huge on the small 056 compared to the 054A. It lies so close to the stern's waterline, I bet the challenge is keeping water out, especially in a rough sea state.

MwRYum said:

So this new anti-sub variant (?), other than the obvious modification at the aft for the deployment of TAS or VDS, another thing I can spot is its bridge structure: it seems to be taller than the earlier (baseline) variant which only about as tall as the hatch door, this one seems to be about half a floor higher...

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The bridge structure does seem to have a higher ceiling than the previous units. Not sure if that is related to the stern's change or simply implementing feedback from experience operating the commissioned units.

That is a huge opening at the stern of the ship, far far larger than necessary or even wise for VDS or TAS, in fact, you can clearly see the distinct square TAS port also found on the 054A class, so I think that large opening is for something else.

The most plausible explanations I can think of right now is that opening is either a ramp for the deployment of sea mines or as an access ramp to load/offload supplies and personnel to/from small South China Sea bases with limited or now harbor facilities.

plawolf said:

That is a huge opening at the stern of the ship, far far larger than necessary or even wise for VDS or TAS, in fact, you can clearly see the distinct square TAS port also found on the 054A class, so I think that large opening is for something else.

The most plausible explanations I can think of right now is that opening is either a ramp for the deployment of sea mines or as an access ramp to load/offload supplies and personnel to/from small South China Sea bases with limited or now harbor facilities.

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Using the 056 as minelayer is quite wasteful. As for the supplying of remote island bases, IIRC they already have supply ships for such a job, no need to hog a combat vessel for such milk runs, besides even if that is what is called for, the sea conditions at those places often better off using RHIB boat to do this - even with the shallow draft of 056 - and the 056 already got one for this.

The fact that the opening is at least 2 decks high and relatively narrow suggests it is intended for something that requires some sort of extensible crane, or other other large articulated deployment mechanism.

So I am thinking would be a new, fairly large sonar fish with a circular or spherical hydrophone array, similar to Soviet horse tail, or it could be for an unmanned undersea vehicles? Or perhaps to deploy autonomous seabed facilitities?

I think it makes more sense if it's a VDS. 056 is known to have a small bow sonar and some have doors for TAS too, the next logical step is VDS to bring its ASW sensor capability up to the standard of 052D and 054A.
It makes a lot of sense to put capable ASW sensors on a smaller, cheaper ship, because playing tag with submarines is one of the most dangerous jobs you can set a ship to do, and sending a principal surface combatant to do ASW is ill-advised given the cost of such ships. That's another reason I think the USN needs a dedicated frigate class to pick up the ASW mission. burkes and ticos are obviously armed with world class ASW suites and helicopters, but sending them to duel with submarines is an ill allocation of resources, because they're also armed with aegis, 96 and 128 VLS respectively, and cost gallons to build, stock and crew.
OTOH a dedicated frigate can be armed with similar ASW suite to burke or tico and also a couple of helos, but ditch expensive PARs and dozens of VLS modules, yet have the range and speed to keep up with a CVBG. The crew will be more specialized to the task than a burke or tico, probably conferring greater ASW human expertise than a more "jack of all trades" ship that dedicates its time to a greater variety of tasks.
More importantly they will be cheaper than using a burke or tico too. I snort a little hearing that the Zumwalt is equipped with a new world class ASW system, because there's no way in hell an admiral would use Zumwalt for "offensive" ASW duties. In that sense it is more of a self defence tool if it comes across a sub on its primary missions.

Similarly, for the PLAN, it makes sense to put their newest ASW suites on a smaller ship for "local" ASW, freeing 052C/D and 054A for blue water missions (including ASW -- I expect 054A to be more dedicated to this mission, but that's another discussion).
A disadvantage for 056 is its lack of helicopter hangar and somewhat slow speed (I believe 25-28 knots is its top?). However, 056 will be working in conjunction with other ships with hangars so it can act as a "lilypad". There will also be shore based Y-8FQs that we can expect in large numbers. If ASW specialized 056s can be spammed in production (think 10 produced a year for a year or two) then the PLAN's local ASW capability will be widely enhanced, simply on the basis of having such a large number of ships with the sensors and the time allocated to train with the sensors.

Anyway, on the 056 itself....:


Eyeballing the VDS port makes it appear similar in width as the 054A and 052Ds VDS doors, but obviously it has greater "height". I wonder if that might be a result of the ship's smaller size, possibly requiring more open space to install the machinery with greater ease.

Or there's a handful of other possibilities why the VDS port is slightly different, maybe sitting lower in the water compared to 056 and 052D means lowernig the VDS down requires that slight modification to the aft. One way we can confirm it's a VDS port in future is if it has a similar door to the 052D's (and soon 054A's), as seen below.





Over on CDF it was said that a Ukrainian firm recently sold the PLAN a digitized version of the Bronza ME Lugan VDS. I wouldn't be surprised if the PLAN managed to get licensed production, which is why we're seeing all ships equipped with such large holes.

Bltizo said:

...A disadvantage for 056 is its lack of helicopter hangar and somewhat slow speed (I believe 25-28 knots is its top?). However, 056 will be working in conjunction with other ships with hangars so it can act as a "lilypad". There will also be shore based Y-8FQs that we can expect in large numbers. If ASW specialized 056s can be spammed in production (think 10 produced a year for a year or two) then the PLAN's local ASW capability will be widely enhanced, simply on the basis of having such a large number of ships with the sensors and the time allocated to train with the sensors.

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I used to think it was a disadvantage for the 056 to not have a helicopter hangar but when taken into context of it's intended area of operation, nothing beyond the first island chain, it's really a small disadvantage vs the savings cost in build and maintenance. That adheres to the workhorse role the ship is tasked with. They can always park a helo on the pad for ASW specific missions. Ships in this class usually don't have an endurance beyond a week without need of a tender for extended deployments so the accompanying helo can be serviced by the tender as well if the mission calls for extended stays.

None of the regional subs in the area go anywhere near 25-28 knots so not a problem either. Furthermore, if the plan is to saturate the area with 056s and they each carry a helo, the chasing part wouldn't need to be reliant on a single 056 itself.

The first batch of 20 056s haven't been completed yet and we're already seeing #17 sporting potentially a TAS/VDS, I have little doubt fast, serial production of this variant will happen. As much as the regional navies acquiring subs will be changing the playing field in the waters within the first island chain, this 056 variant will tilt the field back. I wonder if this model is different enough to be called an 056A?