That is correct. For at least two reasons.
1) There is no VL-Harpon. Its development was cancelled.
2) The Tyoe 23 Frigates have two quad launchers for their harpoons, between the VLS cells and the forecastle, as you can see in this pic:
056 class FFL/corvette
- Thread starter dingyibvs
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1) There is no VL-Harpon. Its development was cancelled.
2) The Tyoe 23 Frigates have two quad launchers for their harpoons, between the VLS cells and the forecastle, as you can see in this pic:
Even if there was a VL version of Harpoon, I don't think it'd fit in the Sea Wolf VLS. If you compare the size of the Sea Wolf missile vs Harpoon, it's like a peanut to a walnut.
Back in 2006 there was a discussion on fitting VLS in the 022 style platform:
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/ideal-plan-missile-boat-4-2628.html
Today I found a pic on CD showing the amount of space below the AK-630 gun mount:
Even on the 022 I think there's sufficient space to install shorter VLS system in place of the AK-630 (though it may not be practical to do so, and may require elevated platform on deck). The Swedes also wanted to install the Umkhonto VLS on their ~640 ton Visby class Corvette, and I doubt it'd have ever been considered if they couldn't fit the VLS on the ship.
Can a VLS system fit on the 056? I think absolutely. But from cost perspective, it would defeat the purpose of a low cost corvette.
Back in 2006 there was a discussion on fitting VLS in the 022 style platform:
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/ideal-plan-missile-boat-4-2628.html
Today I found a pic on CD showing the amount of space below the AK-630 gun mount:
Even on the 022 I think there's sufficient space to install shorter VLS system in place of the AK-630 (though it may not be practical to do so, and may require elevated platform on deck). The Swedes also wanted to install the Umkhonto VLS on their ~640 ton Visby class Corvette, and I doubt it'd have ever been considered if they couldn't fit the VLS on the ship.
Can a VLS system fit on the 056? I think absolutely. But from cost perspective, it would defeat the purpose of a low cost corvette.
I agree. I just listed a couple of other reasons too.
Agreed again. The VLS for that corvett would be for AAW wokr and they already have a very decent AAW solution, very decent indeed.
In addition, they have four perfectly good ASMs as well. The Type 056 is well armed for its function for both AAW and ASuW if called upon to either perform a patrol or corvette oriented mission, or to defend itself.
A TAS and a decent bow sonar would make it much m,ore effective for ASW, particularly while supporting an ASW helo onboard its landing deck.
Anyhow, given its mission and its price point, there is really no need for a VLS on this vessel IMHO.
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joshuatree
Captain
However, to play devil's advocate, if a variant of 056 were to be built with stronger ASW capability (Vietnam sporting Kilos now), there will be additional cost regardless. This can be offset if the build order is something large like another 20 to spread out the cost. In that case, how about a VLS to have a mix of quad packed AAMs and ASROCs? ASMs stay where they are. But the space freed up in the back allows for a hangar. Now coupled that with better bow sonar and TAS. Of course, to keep the size and displacement within similar numbers, the main gun has to go. Perhaps AK-630M-2 Duet? Anyway, just harmless dreaming here.
they why not just build more 054A frigates...add all that stuff its going to cost about the same.
I agree on the TAS/helo facility though. thats one thing it could add that would exponentially increase its capability.
joshuatree
Captain
An 054A is just way bigger in displacement and doesn't work as well in shallower, littoral waters.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
For a ship like the 056, adding a VLS only makes sense if they want to introduce medium range missiles like a quad packed PL10 or PL12. But adding such a capacity involves more than just the VLS module and missiles themselves. You also need searching and targeting radar, back end support computers and a dedicated AAW terminal, maybe even radar illuminators as well depending on the guidance method of the missiles.
All of that stuff takes up space and costs a lot of money, especially with a big fleet of 056s like the PLAN is likely to build, so you really need to carry out a sober cost benefit analysis.
The 056s are really meant as a green water combatant to patrol low threat theatres near China's shores to help free up the blue water fleet for long range operations. Realistically you would not expect 056s to venture outside of the first island chain.
Within that area, in any low threat engagements, the FN3000 is perfectly adequate for self defence against a surprise attack, because the only realitic way an 056 might find itself facing an air threat alone and unsupported is if someone launched a sneak attack when no one was expecting hostilities. In any realistic scenario where there is a real air threat, no PLAN ship would be operating alone and will have back up in the form of an entire PLAN task force with dedicated AAW FFGs and DDGs at a minimal, and likely also have land based fighter support.
Giving the 056s a medium range SAM capability adds very little to such a PLAN task force, and the chances that an 056 might find itself in need of medium range SAM capability when operating alone is extremely remote. That does not really justify the costs involved in adding a VLS capacity, especially if doing so involves removing existing features like the main gun.
All of that stuff takes up space and costs a lot of money, especially with a big fleet of 056s like the PLAN is likely to build, so you really need to carry out a sober cost benefit analysis.
The 056s are really meant as a green water combatant to patrol low threat theatres near China's shores to help free up the blue water fleet for long range operations. Realistically you would not expect 056s to venture outside of the first island chain.
Within that area, in any low threat engagements, the FN3000 is perfectly adequate for self defence against a surprise attack, because the only realitic way an 056 might find itself facing an air threat alone and unsupported is if someone launched a sneak attack when no one was expecting hostilities. In any realistic scenario where there is a real air threat, no PLAN ship would be operating alone and will have back up in the form of an entire PLAN task force with dedicated AAW FFGs and DDGs at a minimal, and likely also have land based fighter support.
Giving the 056s a medium range SAM capability adds very little to such a PLAN task force, and the chances that an 056 might find itself in need of medium range SAM capability when operating alone is extremely remote. That does not really justify the costs involved in adding a VLS capacity, especially if doing so involves removing existing features like the main gun.
I think they can add the ASW capabilities without such a large change.
Heck, if you add a VLS and a hanger, and go to that significant expense, you end up with a frigate.
I just do not believe that is their intent with these vessels. So, I believe they can, at much lower cost, add some additional ASW capabilities without the need for that large expense, and in the waters they will operate in, not sacrifice anything with respect to their effectiveness or ability to defend themselves.
The Israeli Sa'ar V corvette is about 200 tons lighter than the 056, and it's equipped with 2 x 32 cell Barak-1 VLS. This was made possible because they designed the system to be small enough and light enough for a corvette. The smaller deck penetration requirement also made it possible for easy refitting to older warships. For example on the Indian Navy's Rajput (Kashin II) class, they were about to swap out the AK-630 mounts for 8-cell Barak VLS systems.
However, on the Israeli Sa'ar V, it was still necessary to build an elevated platform to accommodate the VLS system. I read that they've upgraded the system to the newer Barak-8, which is a much heavier and longer missile. The Barak-8 is "medium range plus" at 70 km range and gives the Israeli corvette area air-defense capability. But I'm curious about how it's installed on the corvette, and if the Israelis had to reduce the number of VLS cells to accommodate the much larger and heavier missile.
Remember that cost issue for Israeli is different from Chinese Navy, where the Chinese Navy have AAW DDG's, the Israelis only have corvettes. Now, if we want to discuss installing VLS on the 056 for purpose of ASROC type weapons, then we need to consider the length and weight of such missile, which is certainly gong to be even bigger and heavier than the Barak-8:
Barak-1 SAM: 2.1 m length, 98 kg weight
Barak-8 SAM: 4.5 m length, 275 kg weight
VL-ASROC: 5.1 meters length, 748 kg weight
MILAS: 6 m length, 800 kg weight
K-ASROC ("Red Shark"): 5.7 m length, 820 kg weight
91RTE2: 8.9 m length, 1,300 kg weight
The 054A has VLS launched ASW missile, but we do not know the specs. If they followed Italy's route and the missile is a torpedo on top of a YJ missile, then it probably weights more than the original YJ missile.
Alternatively, the ASW missile could be launched from anti-ship missile canisters, like the Italian MILAS (which is basically a torpedo on top of a Otomat). If this is the case, then building a slightly larger 056 with 8 SSM canisters instead of 4 will probably do.
If the goal is to improve the 056 ASW capability, we'd also need to look at the ASW helicopter, which is probably the most effective ASW weapon deployed from a ship. What kind of helicopter can the 056 (or ASW variant of) handle? The Italian Comandanti class corvette (with telescopic hanger) is about 100 ton larger and said to be able to accommodate the NH90, which is similar in weight to Ka-27/28. But you need more hanger and storage space to accommodate all the support equipment, fuel, munitions, etc. for the ASW helicopter. So I don't think you can get away with a small increase to the existing 056 hull.
However, on the Israeli Sa'ar V, it was still necessary to build an elevated platform to accommodate the VLS system. I read that they've upgraded the system to the newer Barak-8, which is a much heavier and longer missile. The Barak-8 is "medium range plus" at 70 km range and gives the Israeli corvette area air-defense capability. But I'm curious about how it's installed on the corvette, and if the Israelis had to reduce the number of VLS cells to accommodate the much larger and heavier missile.
Remember that cost issue for Israeli is different from Chinese Navy, where the Chinese Navy have AAW DDG's, the Israelis only have corvettes. Now, if we want to discuss installing VLS on the 056 for purpose of ASROC type weapons, then we need to consider the length and weight of such missile, which is certainly gong to be even bigger and heavier than the Barak-8:
Barak-1 SAM: 2.1 m length, 98 kg weight
Barak-8 SAM: 4.5 m length, 275 kg weight
VL-ASROC: 5.1 meters length, 748 kg weight
MILAS: 6 m length, 800 kg weight
K-ASROC ("Red Shark"): 5.7 m length, 820 kg weight
91RTE2: 8.9 m length, 1,300 kg weight
The 054A has VLS launched ASW missile, but we do not know the specs. If they followed Italy's route and the missile is a torpedo on top of a YJ missile, then it probably weights more than the original YJ missile.
Alternatively, the ASW missile could be launched from anti-ship missile canisters, like the Italian MILAS (which is basically a torpedo on top of a Otomat). If this is the case, then building a slightly larger 056 with 8 SSM canisters instead of 4 will probably do.
If the goal is to improve the 056 ASW capability, we'd also need to look at the ASW helicopter, which is probably the most effective ASW weapon deployed from a ship. What kind of helicopter can the 056 (or ASW variant of) handle? The Italian Comandanti class corvette (with telescopic hanger) is about 100 ton larger and said to be able to accommodate the NH90, which is similar in weight to Ka-27/28. But you need more hanger and storage space to accommodate all the support equipment, fuel, munitions, etc. for the ASW helicopter. So I don't think you can get away with a small increase to the existing 056 hull.
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antiterror13
Brigadier
I don't think Barak-1 is much more effective than Chinese FL-3000N.
So if China really believe it's necessary, China would simply put more FL-3000N on 056 Corvette (i.e 2x 24 cells FL-3000N) instead of a short ranged VLS system
So if China really believe it's necessary, China would simply put more FL-3000N on 056 Corvette (i.e 2x 24 cells FL-3000N) instead of a short ranged VLS system
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