You place the Japanese navy and the Chinese navy behind those of Italy and Spain and lob them together with the Israeli navy?
056 class FFL/corvette
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You place the Japanese navy and the Chinese navy behind those of Italy and Spain and lob them together with the Israeli navy?
andyhugfan
Banned Idiot
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asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Plus 4 from HD and HP means 12 launches a year roughly speaking, in 3 years they build 36 of these or more
I believe this means maybe three corvette, two FFG and one DDG flotilla per fleet, being very ambitious I would say at a push maybe even three FFG and two DDG flotilla per fleet
That's 24 warships per fleet or further down the line 32 warships per fleet, but I think they will stop at 24 and move onto the big ticket items, cruisers, LHD and carriers
C'mon Jeff, I thought you were better than that....
Come on guys, read the context of the analysis and discussion. It is not an analysis of whose vessels and numbers of vessels are stronger than another.
This particular analysis, as I said, has nothing to do with individual vessel or group strength, it has to do with global reach, foreign basing, long distance influence, logistics, etc.
The ranking would be wholly different if it were looking at what the strongest task force of one navy could do when pitted against the strongest task force of another.
timepass
Brigadier
Referring to Jeff's recent updated list of 056 till now 14 have been launched (4HP/4HD/3LN/3WC) its 14 approx in a year, so in next 3 years keeping the momentum, we are anticipating 42 more builds total 56.
OTOH, if keeping same pace for FFGs (3 launch per year) they will have around 10 more 054As or Bs in addition to 2+20 approx 32FFGs next 3 years.
Hence, IMO following flotilla will comprise the 3 fleets:
4 OPVs - 056 (rest 2 flotilla will go HKG garrison)
3 FFGs - 054 (A/B)
2 DDGs - 051B/C, Souv, 052/B/C/D
36 ships per fleet in next 3-5 years.....
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C'mon Jeff, I thought you were better than that....
That's a little unfair as I do understand the point Jeff is making.
I think it opens to some potentially fascinating areas of discussion with regards to the likely speed the PLAN can build a global support structure for its extended long range operations and where these facilities will most likely be.
The problem I have is that it is really not a proper part of the 056 thread and so should not continue here.
I am not sure if there is a thread already regarding Future Chinese bases or if so, how old it is.
I would not object to a new thread on the subject being started or using some of the posts here to start it.
franco-russe
Senior Member
592 should be Hull 13, as LN 3 has not yet launched.
And of course the complete range of pennant numbers for the first 20 will be 580-599.
I guess that the second series of 10 will get the pt.nos. of the first plus 8. I.e. WC 1 was 584, WC 3 was 592.
If true, LN 3 would be 588 (LN 1 being 580), etc. Hong Kong is a special case, as there we will have 596-597 and 598-599).
franco-russe
Senior Member
I find it difficult to recognise the existing structure of the PLAN surface forces in the speculations in posts # 1733 and 1735. I do not anticipate there will be any radical changes in that structure
The fleet is organised in flotillas (zhidui支队) and squadrons (dadui大队).
A destroyer flotilla normally has four destroyers and four frigates. The latter were organised into squadrons until late 2011 when they were disbanded and the frigates subordinated directly to the flotilla.
The surface forces are divided into three tiers:
Tier 1: six destroyer flotillas, two per fleet, which will eventually each form the escort of a carrier. I believe each will eventually get two 055A.
Tier 2: presently four frigate squadrons, two each in ESF and SSF. I think there will soon be a fifth squadron in NSF, and possibly a sixth later. These are equipped with older frigates (053 versions), which will no doubt eventually be replaced by 054A’s as these are replaced by new frigates.
Tier 3: presently 11 subchaser squadrons, four in NSF, four in ESF and three in SSF, of which eight are presently getting one 056 each. Depending on whethere 36 or (more likely) 40 Type 056 are built, eight or nine will eventually become light frigate squadrons. In addition, Hong Kong will also have four 056.
The fleet is organised in flotillas (zhidui支队) and squadrons (dadui大队).
A destroyer flotilla normally has four destroyers and four frigates. The latter were organised into squadrons until late 2011 when they were disbanded and the frigates subordinated directly to the flotilla.
The surface forces are divided into three tiers:
Tier 1: six destroyer flotillas, two per fleet, which will eventually each form the escort of a carrier. I believe each will eventually get two 055A.
Tier 2: presently four frigate squadrons, two each in ESF and SSF. I think there will soon be a fifth squadron in NSF, and possibly a sixth later. These are equipped with older frigates (053 versions), which will no doubt eventually be replaced by 054A’s as these are replaced by new frigates.
Tier 3: presently 11 subchaser squadrons, four in NSF, four in ESF and three in SSF, of which eight are presently getting one 056 each. Depending on whethere 36 or (more likely) 40 Type 056 are built, eight or nine will eventually become light frigate squadrons. In addition, Hong Kong will also have four 056.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Franco-Russe
Tier 1, And SSF there is room for 172 and 173 (Type 052D) to join 170 and 171 (Type 052C)
This leaves 167,168 and 169 which means they need to still add one more DDG to build full two flotillas of 4 DDG each
ESF is easy 136-139 ( Sovs) and 150-153 (Type 052C)
NSF is easy too, 112, 113, 115 and 116 and then comes 117-120 (Type 052D)
This means there's 11 "second rate" DDG and 13 "first rate" DDG
Out of the 13 first rate DDG there's 6 x Type 052C which means there needs to be 7 x Type 052D, agreed?
If they do add a single Type 052D to complete 167-169 at SSF it would have to be 166? Or will they number it 174?
I bet they wish they built two Type 051B for sake of numbers
Out of the 7 Type 052D there's already been 3 launched which means there's just 4 left, would it not just be easier for JN to launch all 4 and switch to Type 055, but I just can't believe the Type 052D will stop with 7 units, maybe a 3rd DDG is on the agenda integrated with two Type 055? Because I always thought there is going to be 8 x Type 052D or more
So each fleet has three DDG flotillas
One with 2 x Type 052D and 2 x Type 055
Second with 4 Type 052C/D
Third with 4 older Type 052, 052A, 051B, 051C and Sovs
Tier 1, And SSF there is room for 172 and 173 (Type 052D) to join 170 and 171 (Type 052C)
This leaves 167,168 and 169 which means they need to still add one more DDG to build full two flotillas of 4 DDG each
ESF is easy 136-139 ( Sovs) and 150-153 (Type 052C)
NSF is easy too, 112, 113, 115 and 116 and then comes 117-120 (Type 052D)
This means there's 11 "second rate" DDG and 13 "first rate" DDG
Out of the 13 first rate DDG there's 6 x Type 052C which means there needs to be 7 x Type 052D, agreed?
If they do add a single Type 052D to complete 167-169 at SSF it would have to be 166? Or will they number it 174?
I bet they wish they built two Type 051B for sake of numbers
Out of the 7 Type 052D there's already been 3 launched which means there's just 4 left, would it not just be easier for JN to launch all 4 and switch to Type 055, but I just can't believe the Type 052D will stop with 7 units, maybe a 3rd DDG is on the agenda integrated with two Type 055? Because I always thought there is going to be 8 x Type 052D or more
So each fleet has three DDG flotillas
One with 2 x Type 052D and 2 x Type 055
Second with 4 Type 052C/D
Third with 4 older Type 052, 052A, 051B, 051C and Sovs
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