056 class FFL/corvette

Mysterre said:

It just looks bigger because of the small size of the 056, but the helipad by surface area is actually smaller than any of the other helipads used on modern PLAN vessels. It is the same length when measured from bow to stern, but much less when measured from port to starboard, because of the ship's smaller beam. I think its relative size is a safety thing rather than a "let's place emphasis on 056 ASW capabilities" thing. My comparison to civilian ships was meant to point out that having a helipad is so useful that even civilian ships (that obviously don't perform ASW) also have helipads. The convenience (and perhaps even necessity) of having a helipad for rapid transfer of personnel and supplies cannot be understated. IMO any warship large enough to have one, will. Even if it does not also have room for a hangar, or the ability to rearm ASW helos.

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Well, since all the other modern PLAN ships are frigates and destroyers, saying the 056 has a smaller helipad that them really doesn't prove anything.

All you have to do is look at similar tonnage designs world wide, and even at the old JiangWeis. They all have much smaller helipads and are able to operate helos just fine, so I really don't buy the suggestion that the 056 having such a disproportionately large helipad is for safety.

Yes I agree that helicopters are important and useful to have, but again, comparing civilian ships to warships is comparing apples to oranges since they have entirely different design goals. Warships are functional ships, while yachts are man toys for the super rich. Yachts having helipads are more because their billionaire owners also have helicopters and want to show off and/or are too posh for a lowly launch. Such considerations are not something warship designers would ever dream of considering unless they worked for Saddam or some other oil shiek who treats their armed forces as another man toy.

If you stick to warships, you will see that not only are there no other designs of the 056's size with such a big helipad, many similarly sized corvettes do not even have a helipad.

Based on similar sized warships and even the JiangWei, they could have easily taken 1/4-1/3 off that helipad and still had a bigger parking space that many similarly sized warships for helos.

The decision to have such a big helipad was a deliberate design choice, and it was for far more than merely safety or allowing future growth potential to handle larger helos when the become available.

plawolf said:

All you have to do is look at similar tonnage designs world wide, and even at the old JiangWeis. They all have much smaller helipads and are able to operate helos just fine, so I really don't buy the suggestion that the 056 having such a disproportionately large helipad is for safety.

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I'm absolutely certain you are just saying that and have no proof for it.

plawolf said:

Yes I agree that helicopters are important and useful to have, but again, comparing civilian ships to warships is comparing apples to oranges since they have entirely different design goals. Warships are functional ships, while yachts are man toys for the super rich. Yachts having helipads are more because their billionaire owners also have helicopters and want to show off and/or are too posh for a lowly launch. Such considerations are not something warship designers would ever dream of considering unless they worked for Saddam or some other oil shiek who treats their armed forces as another man toy.

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Really, so cruise liners have helipads for show as well?

plawolf said:

If you stick to warships, you will see that not only are there no other designs of the 056's size with such a big helipad, many similarly sized corvettes do not even have a helipad.

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Here is a list of currently active corvettes 900-1,700t:
Uribe (988t) – yes
Holzinger (1,022t) – yes
Badr (1,038t) – no
Sa'ar 5 (1,075t) – yes
Rizal (1,090t) – no
D'Estienne d'Orves (1,100t) – no
Kaszub (1,183t) – no
Pohang (1,200t) – no
Descubierta (1,233t) – no
Baptista de Andrade (1,252t) – yes
Minerva (1,285t) – no
Type 056 (1,300t) – yes
Sierra (1,335t) – yes
Khukri (1,350t) – yes
Kora (1,350t) – yes
Petre Bărbuneanu (1,385t) – no
Eustațiu Sebastian (1,480t) – yes
Espora (1,560t) – yes
Gawron (1,650t) – yes
Inhaúma (1,670t) – yes
Oaxaca (1,680t) – yes
Kasturi (1,690t) – yes
Sigma (1,692t) – yes

Out of 23 listed here, only 8 (35%) don't have helipads; not exactly my definition of "many". You can also see from the trend that mainly the smaller corvettes in that range of 1,300t +/- 400t don't have helipads.

plawolf said:

Based on similar sized warships and even the JiangWei, they could have easily taken 1/4-1/3 off that helipad and still had a bigger parking space that many similarly sized warships for helos.

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Again, this is a completely unsubstantiated claim.

plawolf said:

The decision to have such a big helipad was a deliberate design choice, and it was for far more than merely safety or allowing future growth potential to handle larger helos when the become available.

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You're trying to imply that a big helipad also implies ASW reloading capability. Even if you had demonstrated that the 056 helipad is disproportionately large, which you haven't, "ASW reloading capability" does not necessarily follow from "big helipad". It is a logically tenuous argument.

Well just look at how much space is set aside for the helipad on the 056 proportionate to the overall size of the ship. It has the same sized helipad as the much bigger 054A class, while most warships (comparing civilian ships to warships is comparing apples to oranges as i know of no cruise ships or yachts that needs torpedo armed helos) of the 056's size made do with much smaller helipads both in absolute and proportional terms.

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It just looks bigger because of the small size of the 056, but the helipad by surface area is actually smaller than any of the other helipads used on modern PLAN vessels.

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Isn't there a picture with 056 parked right next a 054A? By the look of it, the helipad has the same length, but 054A is wider

All this discussion on whether the 056 is capable of refueling and/or re-arming an incoming helo is moot, unless we know more about the interior usage of space. If let's say the 056 is highly automated and the standard crew size is phenomenally small (US LCS is about 40 core crew), then more interior space can be devoted to stockpiling fuel and armament for a helo.

But with the pics showing no storage space between the two garage doors, the center space between the two doors appear to be a control room of some sort, I doubt the ship is going to be able to re-arm an incoming helo. Just no room to freely load/unload gear. Had the rear been simply one large center door, it would be more plausible then as that spot could be used as storage for armament or even a UAV. Who knows, maybe there will be future 056Bs that would do that, not hard at all, just like how they shifted the hanger between the 052C and 052D.

joshuatree said:

All this discussion on whether the 056 is capable of refueling and/or re-arming an incoming helo is moot, unless we know more about the interior usage of space. If let's say the 056 is highly automated and the standard crew size is phenomenally small (US LCS is about 40 core crew), then more interior space can be devoted to stockpiling fuel and armament for a helo.

But with the pics showing no storage space between the two garage doors, the center space between the two doors appear to be a control room of some sort, I doubt the ship is going to be able to re-arm an incoming helo. Just no room to freely load/unload gear. Had the rear been simply one large center door, it would be more plausible then as that spot could be used as storage for armament or even a UAV. Who knows, maybe there will be future 056Bs that would do that, not hard at all, just like how they shifted the hanger between the 052C and 052D.

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Then start praying that the lead ships will be delivered soon to HK garrison, and to be on display in the upcoming Labour Day open house.

MwRYum said:

Then start praying that the lead ships will be delivered soon to HK garrison, and to be on display in the upcoming Labour Day open house.

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I understand praying won't be necessary. The first ship is said to have arrived in HK and it is very unlikely that she won't be opened to the public. I think we all agree that she looks beautiful and except in the CIC she won't carry things that should remain secret.

Older & Younger Brothers






Wolfy-The Length of the Helipads.

582 Jiangdao has been commissioned today. This will be the second Type 056 corvette that has been commissioned into the PLAN.

announcement:

热烈庆祝056轻型导弹护卫舰首制舰582舰交舰，582舰于2012年5月23日在沪东中华造船集团三部 下水，11月试航，期间克服重重困难，排除某设备所带来的不利的影响，终于于2013年2月24日交付部队 。

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Google translate:

Celebrate the 056 the lightweight missile frigate first made ​​ship 582 ship cross-ship, the 582-ship on May 23, 2012 in Hudong-Zhonghua Shipbuilding Group three water sea trials in November, during the period to overcome difficulties, to exclude a device adversethe impact forces, finally delivered on February 24, 2013.

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Hudong 1st 056, 582 has been commissioned

Too Close-The Fishing Boat