055 Large Destroyer Thread II

[vincent]

Just agree to disagree and move on people.

 

[test1979]

This is hardly a reason for you to reasonably assume that the 346B is GaN-based.

The radar used in the 346A is clearly different compared with the 346, if only for the fact that one is air-cooled and the other is liquid-cooled, suggesting far higher cooling needs. This could easily be a function of size rather than a difference in MMICs. Same for the 346B, which is larger than the 346A, and simultaneously not automatically a GaN just because it is used on the 055, a ship and a radar system that came out only 2 years after the Type 052D/346A. IMO I think it is far more likely given this short period of time between the introduction of the 052D and the 055 is that the 346B is just a scaled-up version of the 346A.

Putting GaN in a phone is NOT the same thing as developing an entire radar system around thousands of GaN MMICs.

Sounds like you somehow think the default assumption is that the 346B is GaN and that I have to find "excuses" that it is not. I wouldn't mind if you personally think that it is GaN, but you certainly don't get to assume you somehow have the default assumption here.

It is very likely that the 346B uses GAN MMICs. Please note that at the 2014 Radar Show, the designer of the 346 radar, Nanjing Institute 14, exhibited the SLC-2 radar using GAN, which also uses the S band like the 346 radar, and the 055 just started construction in 2014.

 

[totenchan]

It is very likely that the 346B uses GAN MMICs. Please note that at the 2014 Radar Show, the designer of the 346 radar, Nanjing Institute 14, exhibited the SLC-2 radar using GAN, which also uses the S band like the 346 radar, and the 055 just started construction in 2014.
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Frankly this does not mean anything unless you have some evidence that the two radars are related. CETC has dozens of radars operating in the S-band, and this radar in particular is primarily a counter-battery radar, which is quite distant from a ship-based air defense radar.

 

[test1979]

Frankly this does not mean anything unless you have some evidence that the two radars are related. CETC has dozens of radars operating in the S-band, and this radar in particular is primarily a counter-battery radar, which is quite distant from a ship-based air defense radar.

Apparently the official SLC-2 display I was given stated that its combat targets include artillery shells, tactical aircraft, drones, and helicopters.
I don't quite understand why you think this radar is not used for air defense.
What is even more difficult for me to understand is that when a design unit can use GAN on land radars with weaker heat dissipation capabilities, you think it will not be used on larger shipborne radars?
What is the reason?

 

[vincent]

Frankly this does not mean anything unless you have some evidence that the two radars are related. CETC has dozens of radars operating in the S-band, and this radar in particular is primarily a counter-battery radar, which is quite distant from a ship-based air defense radar.

So the PLA is using GaN tech on a counter-battery radar but not on the radars installed on its most advance cruiser? Does that logic makes sense to you?

 

[Iron Man]

No I don't. I think it is reasonable to question the basis of the widely accepted assertion that Type 346B is a GaN-based radar. What I disagree with is how you have framed the question, i.e. asserting that Type 346B probably isn't GaN-based, even though Germany and Japan were also validating and fielding GaN-based naval radars in the same timeframe, because China was not then in their technological league. This despite China having already established an impressive record in the timely deployment of new radar technologies, as with the introduction of KJ-2000 in the early 2000s and the original Type 346 radar on 052C in mid-2000s. The skepticism appears unwarranted.

Impressive is your ascription. Widely accepted is also your ascription. I don't find either the KJ-2000 or the Type 346 particularly impressive. The KJ-2000 was only developed locally because the US stopped the Russian/Israeli A-50 deal from proceeding. If the PLAAF had the technology to match or beat the M-205 Phalcon at that time which itself was 1990s technology, they would already have done it by themselves instead of going through the Israelis. As for the baseline 346, the fact that it is air-cooled means its radiative output is subpar, almost by definition. How many other naval AESAs do you know of out there that are air-cooled instead of liquid-cooled?

You referred to a notional 2-year gap between 052D and 055. This figure can only be arrived at by comparing the two projects at different points in their development cycles, which is entirely uninformative. If you are fixated on systems design maturity for 055 as of 2014 when construction is said to have begun, the equivalent point for 052D was sure as shit not in 2012 when 172 Kunming was launched.

What are you talking about different points? I'm talking about start date of construction. How in the world is this metric different points? The 052D started construction in 2012, while the 055 started construction in 2014, which means that these designs (and their technology levels) would have been frozen prior to these dates, and actually probably many years prior to these dates. FYI 172 Kunming STARTED construction in 2012. The fact that it was also launched in 2012 means less than nothing in the present context.

So the PLA is using GaN tech on a counter-battery radar but not on the radars installed on its most advance cruiser? Does that logic makes sense to you?

Makes sense to me. A counter-battery radar is orders of magnitude less complex than a naval Aegis-type radar system, which means much longer lead times/development cycles. A naval AESA system which came out in 2014 would certainly have started development many years prior to a counter-battery radar which also came out in 2014.

 

[totenchan]

Apparently the official SLC-2 display I was given stated that its combat targets include artillery shells, tactical aircraft, drones, and helicopters.
I don't quite understand why you think this radar is not used for air defense.

Most modern counter-battery radars can detect and track tactical aircraft, drones, and helicopters. Its primary use is still a weapons locating radar.

What is even more difficult for me to understand is that when a design unit can use GAN on land radars with weaker heat dissipation capabilities, you think it will not be used on larger shipborne radars?

I did not say this. I was simply pointing out that the SLC-2E using GaN transmitters does not mean anything in relation to the Type 346. However, now that you brought it up, I will note that GaN technology was used on land based radar, including counter-battery radars (ie. AN/TPQ-53), long before it was used for larger maritime panels.

So the PLA is using GaN tech on a counter-battery radar but not on the radars installed on its most advance cruiser? Does that logic makes sense to you?

Yes? Not saying that it is necessarily the case, but there could be many reasons the PLA decides not to use GaN for the 055. I think ruling it out just because a counter-battery radar uses GaN transmitters doesn't make any sense.

 

[mangchaocs]

Some people on an island in southeastern China believe that the 055 cannot win in a one-on-one fight against a Mitsubishi Zero fighter.


——The primary role of a destroyer is air defense, so it's challenging to compare their strengths solely based on their defensive capabilities. However, if we evaluate offensive capabilities, a massive 10,000-ton destroyer like the 055 might struggle against a Zero fighter in a one-on-one scenario. If the Zero is equipped with modern torpedoes and executes an ultra-low-altitude sea-skimming attack, it wouldn’t be impossible to take down the 055. After all, "Zero" is small, slow, has a minimal infrared signature, and can blend into sea clutter at low altitudes, making early detection difficult. In a head-to-head situation, the 055 might not stand a chance against the "Zero".——