055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Hyper]

True and Tsirkon launches show missile tipping over as well. The issue with this is seemingly that it doesn't provide it with enough range but air breathers aren't really making use of all that potential energy and atmospheric bouncing around like an HGV does so maybe you're correct here with the speculation it's a scramjet.

What makes everyone think otherwise is the tip's resemblance to various SRBM tips. Unless of course these are just the fairings for the actual hypersonic vehicle within. Kind of like how the AGM-183's actual weapon is inside the fairing. We know Tsirkon's actual hypersonic vehicle is inside as well rather than for example on the DF-ZF on the DF-17.



Yeah almost definitely not a long range ASROC shown but an ABM even one that is picking up a target at extreme range should still be significantly faster even during this initial directing phase. Normally long range SAMs always want to pick up altitude no matter what even if it is a relatively low flying target at extreme range. It still makes no sense to course correct so low and expend that much energy doing it when the potential energy in altitude is far more useful. Targets cannot be that low to be course correcting like this.

If this was a HCM / air breathing scramjet then we would not have this video. Such a video would not have been released.

 

[ougoah]

If this was a HCM / air breathing scramjet then we would not have this video. Such a video would not have been released.

hmmm hard to say. I mean videos on ballistic missile launches are released and if this is a HCM/HGV inside the upper stage section, it doesn't reveal anything except the size of the missile and the available space within the fairing.

 

[Hyper]

hmmm hard to say. I mean videos on ballistic missile launches are released and if this is a HCM/HGV inside the upper stage section, it doesn't reveal anything except the size of the missile and the available space within the fairing.

That is what I am saying. We still have no launch video of df-zf.

 

[by78]

Nice screen captures of 105.

 

[sheogorath]

The corresponding The Copium Zone article on the matter.

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They don't really have a clue about what it is, so they run the whole gamut of AShBM to air-breathing hypersonic missile.

They have dropped the sinophobia a bit after the russian invasion of Ukraine(except in the comments they refuse to moderate unless it is too pro-russia/pro-china for their tastes), though, so there is that.

 

[ougoah]

That is what I am saying. We still have no launch video of df-zf.

Perhaps because they are regarded differently. I don't think this piece of "logic" necessarily indicates this is NOT a anti-surface missile and therefore is a ABM or ASROC or whatever else other than anti-surface missile.

We haven't seen a launch video of Avangard but the Russians have shown launch videos of Tsirkon.

 

[Hyper]

Perhaps because they are regarded differently. I don't think this piece of "logic" necessarily indicates this is NOT a anti-surface missile and therefore is a ABM or ASROC or whatever else other than anti-surface missile.

We haven't seen a launch video of Avangard but the Russians have shown launch videos of Tsirkon.

Not a close up video. It is an anti surface or anti ship missile. However it probably isn't air breathing HCM. Also where are the intakes.

 

[ougoah]

Not a close up video. It is an anti surface or anti ship missile. However it probably isn't air breathing HCM. Also where are the intakes.

Nor is this video a close up, following your train of logic. No imaginary rule of yours has been violated.

If it is a container a la AGM-183, then we don't see the actual vehicle itself which would be held within the fairing. If it is simply a SRBM, then upper stage section is simply what is shown.

 

[Temstar]

Shilao, Yankee and Ayi talked about the new missile in

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, in very cryptic terms (starting at about 55 minutes in). I have trouble following so feel free to add or correct the below if you have better understanding of what they discussed:

1. they are aware of three different ASM in development for UVLS - double conical MaRV ASBM, HGV waverider ASBM and air breathing HCM
2. the characteristics of cold launch + lack of rear fairing matches what they've seen of images for one of the three types, however the shape does not closely match what was expected, so it's not safe to rule out that it could be the other two
3. one of the three type is technically an upgrade on the other, I imagine they meant the HGV waverider ASBM is an upgrade to MaRV ASBM, "higher on the tech tree" was the term they used. However they also agree that by the time they are aware of such a project all the show stopper technical huddles would have been worked out long ago and since they know of three then three are probably concurrent projects
4. although the analogy of "tech tree" was used, they want to emphases that you should not think of these three as linear progression that goes A -> B - > C, it's not like once you have B you retire all the A in service. Rather all three might enter service at once and even be loaded onto a single ship, so that without knowing the opposition's exact ABM capabilities you launch all three types at the same time and present three different attack profiles, making interception even harder
5. they seem to be hinting that none of these three are called YJ-21, or alternatively all of them are called YJ-21 with different flavors. Beyond these three there are further missile projects for UVLS and if you include those possibilities then this thing may be any of the 4-5 different projects going on

They also joked that this must be the happiest day for Sutton because he's been saying 055 launched ASBM is coming since 2020 and now he's vindicated.

 

[escobar]

Shilao, Yankee and Ayi talked about the new missile in

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, in very cryptic terms (starting at about 55 minutes in). I have trouble following so feel free to add or correct the below if you have better understanding of what they discussed:

1. they are aware of three different ASM in development for UVLS - double conical MaRV ASBM, HGV waverider ASBM and air breathing HCM
2. the characteristics of cold launch + lack of rear fairing matches what they've seen of images for one of the three types, however the shape does not closely match what was expected, so it's not safe to rule out that it could be the other two
3. one of the three type is technically an upgrade on the other, I imagine they meant the HGV waverider ASBM is an upgrade to MaRV ASBM, "higher on the tech tree" was the term they used. However they also agree that by the time they are aware of such a project all the show stopper technical huddles would have been worked out long ago and since they know of three then three are probably concurrent projects
4. although the analogy of "tech tree" was used, they want to emphases that you should not think of these three as linear progression that goes A -> B - > C, it's not like once you have B you retire all the A in service. Rather all three might enter service at once and even be loaded onto a single ship, so that without knowing the opposition's exact ABM capabilities you launch all three types at the same time and present three different attack profiles, making interception even harder
5. they seem to be hinting that none of these three are called YJ-21, or alternatively all of them are called YJ-21 with different flavors. Beyond these three there are further missile projects for UVLS and if you include those possibilities then this thing may be any of the 4-5 different projects going on

They also joked that this must be the happiest day for Sutton because he's been saying 055 launched ASBM is coming since 2020 and now he's vindicated.

Further ASM missile projects? We already have ASBM/HGV/HCM, what else is left? Stealth ASM?