055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

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BoraTas

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As in radar guided gun projectiles like the DART? Without guided projectiles, I don't think it is fair to qualify 76mm/130mm guns as CIWS @FairAndUnbiased .
The name of China's 76 mm naval gun is H/PJ-26. The specs or munitions of it are unclear. China, as always, is very secretive. Though the gun had a land-based export variant. It was for air defense. They were advertising 360 degree transverse, 130 RPM and full auto operation. They were also mentioning "munitions that can automatically correct ballistics". It is likely that a DART-like munition exists. Maybe not saboted like DART but guided.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
As in radar guided gun projectiles like the DART? Without guided projectiles, I don't think it is fair to qualify 76mm/130mm guns as CIWS @FairAndUnbiased .

The 130mm has guided, though I am not sure of the 76mm but the technology is there. The AK130 and the AK76 has both shot down guided missiles or target drones posing as such without use of guidance. While guidance helps it isn't necessary for this application as much as fragmentation does.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
The 130mm has guided, though I am not sure of the 76mm but the technology is there. The AK130 and the AK76 has both shot down guided missiles or target drones posing as such without use of guidance. While guidance helps it isn't necessary for this application as much as fragmentation does.
This. Naval guns were used for CIWS long before guided shell existed.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
This. Naval guns were used for CIWS long before guided shell existed.

Definitely.

Another thing to remember that most Oto Melara 76mm don't use DART as it requires a turret upgrade to include a CLOS. This is adding a radar system to the turret.

These won't use it.

download (28).jpegRSS_Valour_76mm_OTO_Melara.jpeg

You need to have this.

Oto-Melara-76SR-gun-005.jpg

That looks like its asking for much $$$$ to upgrade and many navies don't opt for it. They use the standard turrets instead like the two featured above. These standard turrets are fully capable of acting like a CIWS to take down antiship missiles, and for that they use a shell with proximity fuses and fragmentation or PFF, which is good old flak.

Course guided, not radar homing but GPS and inertial system guided projectiles, which will extend range and increase accuracy (decrease CEP) over range, are what most navies are using, and that's what I expect the PLAN has.
 

SAC

Junior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
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Why the Type 055 is more significant than many people think:
 

Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
Definitely.

Another thing to remember that most Oto Melara 76mm don't use DART as it requires a turret upgrade to include a CLOS. This is adding a radar system to the turret.

These won't use it.

View attachment 83787View attachment 83788

You need to have this.

View attachment 83789

That looks like its asking for much $$$$ to upgrade and many navies don't opt for it. They use the standard turrets instead like the two featured above. These standard turrets are fully capable of acting like a CIWS to take down antiship missiles, and for that they use a shell with proximity fuses and fragmentation or PFF, which is good old flak.

Course guided, not radar homing but GPS and inertial system guided projectiles, which will extend range and increase accuracy (decrease CEP) over range, are what most navies are using, and that's what I expect the PLAN has.

You don't specifically need "the turret upgrade" to use DART with the 76SR.

You can use a standalone Gun-Radar FCS ...

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According to Leonardo, to allow customers to use the latest baseline Super Rapido MF Gun with the DART ammunition and without the need to install the Strales guidance kit on the mount, the Italian group offers the latest generation dual-band (X/Ka) Radar/EO NA-30S Mk2 FCS capable to guide the DART ammunition.

So even if the turret doesn't look STRALES-like, it'd be good to look to the ship superstructure for a possible gun/radar FCS before categorically stating that a platform with a 76SR doesn't have that capability.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
You don't specifically need "the turret upgrade" to use DART with the 76SR.

You can use a standalone Gun-Radar FCS ...



So even if the turret doesn't look STRALES-like, it'd be good to look to the ship superstructure for a possible gun/radar FCS before categorically stating that a platform with a 76SR doesn't have that capability.

Except that you have to upgrade to this particular latest Selex branded FCR, and not just use any FCR. That's also a $$$$ upgrade. You also have to put a transmitter somewhere.

Note that it resembles the Type 347G, as the Chinese radar may have been inspired from earlier Selex designs.


026782235_1-b396b12ba470301c1bd8309da7f2271c.png
Type 347G
PNS_Saif_-_Type_347_FCR.jpg

As there are a number of FCRs that look like this stretching for over three decades, that alone means nothing unless you have that specified and branded FCR.
 
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Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
Except that you have to upgrade to this particular latest Selex branded FCR, and not just use any FCR. That's also a $$$$ upgrade. You also have to put a transmitter somewhere.

Note that it resembles the Type 347G, as the Chinese radar may have been inspired from earlier Selex designs.


View attachment 83935
Type 347G
View attachment 83936

As there are a number of FCRs that look like this stretching for over three decades, that alone means nothing unless you have that specified and branded FCR.

True ... but also not true.

It works with previous gen NA-25 as well.

Also, while most FCS look the same, I agree you can't go by superficial appearances. ID the FCS (which most ships have) and look to their capabilities.

eg. Thales Sting Mk2

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Thales Nederland has conducted incremental integration trials in conjunction with Leonardo’s DART sub-calibre radio-frequency beam-guided ammunition being fired by the same company’s 76/62 mm Compatto gun.

That's 2 already ... want to bet there aren't more?
 
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