055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

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... For a 30 years old ship class it's an incredible ldvel of adaptability.
...
so let's wait and see how the Burkes fare sixty (60) years from now (
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"The DDG-51 is now the single most common type in the fleet, a vital part of the hoped-for
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, with some ships expected to
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  • There are now 64 Arleigh Burkes of various sub-types in service;
  • nine of the latest Flight IIA variant are in various stages of construction; and"
  • work is beginning on the new Flight IIIs in Mississippi (
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    ) and Maine (General Dynamics-owned
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    )."
 
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Deleted member 13312

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Green water littoral protection navy still operates far more globally than "blue water" PLANAF.
Don't let trends overtake facts.
Well to be fair the areas in which the Russian navy operates atm in a active combat posture more or less compromise of green to brown water areas. (Syria, the Black Sea) etc, and with ground based assets like the Tartus Port. If the PLAN have the same base assets and obligations they can operate in the same capacity as the Russians.
But I agree that to write off the Burke now is a tad bit to early, though we would have to see what improvements the Flight III would bring.
 
Well to be fair the areas in which the Russian navy operates atm in a active combat posture more or less compromise of green to brown water areas. (Syria, the Black Sea) etc, and with ground based assets like the Tartus Port. If the PLAN have the same base assets and obligations they can operate in the same capacity as the Russians.
But I agree that to write off the Burke now is a tad bit to early, though we would have to see what improvements the Flight III would bring.
yeah, the USN will get stuck with the Burkes for decades to come
12 minutes ago
 

ougoah

Brigadier
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Green water littoral protection navy still operates far more globally than "blue water" PLANAF.
Don't let trends overtake facts.

That "operates far more globally" is quite a joke. PLAN has no reason to operate globally. Its only real task are operating inside those island chains. Don't let that confuse you and convince you PLAN is incapable of operating the same way RN does, which is already nothing to brag about. Not sure why you brought up RN in this thread when the slight deviation to Kirov discussion has ended.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
PLAN has no reason to operate globally.
There are chinese SSNs in the Atlantic, developing chinese naval activity in the Indian ocean, and more. And this scale willonly rise, with "competition" becoming a motto for the US.
But the fact remains, right now green water Russian ships routinely operate thousands of miles from home bases.
Don't let that confuse you and convince you PLAN is incapable
Of course it's capable. Just no one has seen it yet, so it is an unproven capability.
Pirates don't count nowadays.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
There are chinese SSNs in the Atlantic, developing chinese naval activity in the Indian ocean, and more. And this scale willonly rise, with "competition" becoming a motto for the US.
But the fact remains, right now green water Russian ships routinely operate thousands of miles from home bases.

Of course it's capable. Just no one has seen it yet, so it is an unproven capability.
Pirates don't count nowadays.

Agreed on unproven capability against other navies. I hope it stays that way though. Would you rather it didn't? We're having a discussion on 055 and you come in saying oops PLAN is unproven and russian navy operates globally in a way PLAN does not. I don't see how that is relevant or indicative of anything. Despite not having been used in actual fights against other navies, PLAN's technology base is improving well. No need for senseless loss of lives around the world just so they can prove themselves to you.

BTW USN and russians are both also unproven against PLAN. So .... hmmmmmm
 

FireyCross

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Burkes can do all the stuff 052d can, and more(ABM). They're arguably worse at some of it(less potent munitions), but better at others(larger and superior asw helicopter, EW options), outright more flexible(essms, tomahawks, sm-6s) and operate in a far more integrated maritime environement. For a 30 years old ship class it's an incredible ldvel of adaptability.
The main area 052d wins outright is what it does most essential tasks in a much smaller hull. But it's the burkes who are more numerous, not 052s. And it won't change for quite some time.

055, on the other hand, is larger still... In the end it is a clearly larger ship than the burke. But still w/o abm. Not a problem at the moment, but US army and USAF global prompt strike can change it.


Green water littoral protection navy still operates far more globally than "blue water" PLANAF.
Don't let trends overtake facts.

It does to a degree, but this more reflects the inheritance of the Russian fleet from the Soviet fleet - which had a fundamentally different mission, and existed in a very different era when big capital ships were still a thing. There is a missmatch between the equipment, the needs and the resources of the fleet. While they have the Soviet legacy fleet (and a lot of pride) they can play with blue-water operations, but it's a luxury that can't be sustained for the long term. As ships are a long term investment, the Russian fleets need to look towards what they *will* need and *will* be able to maintain, not where they are at now. And that future is going to be better met with a smaller, simpler and newer fleet protecting home waters and the near abroad, than trying to maintain a legacy fleet built in a different technological and tactical era, for a very different - and much better resourced - navy. It's not a good position to be in, but it is what it is.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
All fair points, but there are some crucial facts that are often overlooked. For example, yes, Chinese DDGs have fewer cells, but the Chinese VLS cells are much larger than the American Mark 41. The 9m CUVLS has almost 3 times the volume of the longest 7.7m Mk 41, allowing for much heavier missiles to equipped. All the more impressive considering that the 055 has 112 of them.

The PLAN is also more or less the only navy in the world that has a supersonic, VLS-launched AShM, the YJ-18A, until the USN rolls out the VLS-launched variant of the LRASM, which is still a couple of years away.

This isn't even considering the dual-band AESA radars on the 052Cs, 052Ds, and 055s, which allows them to pick up on and target hundreds of targets simultaneously if they work as advertised. The USN only has one sensor suite with similar capabilities - the Ford's DBR - which is now a cancelled program because even the USN deemed it 'overkill', and too expensive. Only the AB Flight III's SPY-6 will be

It is true though, that Chinese SAMs are somewhat lackluster - or at the least, yet unproven. The PLAN is probably hard-pressed to develop short and medium-range missiles that can quad-packed or dual-packed, which would free up a lot of missile capacity for other munitions. Also, as you've mentioned, the 055 doesn't have a SM-3 equivalent.



Yes, no, maybe. Unless we get our hands on the design's exact specifications, we won't know for sure.

.

so you're contradicting yourself, because earlier you said 052Ds are 'significantly more capable' than ABs but now it's hard to know for sure :)

anyway just giving a hard time buddy!
 

s002wjh

Junior Member
when come to navy US is not gonna use it's Burke against 055 but jet with new version of antiship missile or sub lunched equivalent . so how far is PLAN anti sub warfare compare to other nations?
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
when come to navy US is not gonna use it's Burke against 055 but jet with new version of antiship missile or sub lunched equivalent . so how far is PLAN anti sub warfare compare to other nations?

Actually PLAn has come a long way in Anti Sub since a decade ago. New underwater great wall in first and 2nd island Chain should be operational now Considering they reveal the intent to built one in 2016 . The year when all the building block for SOSSUS in finish testing including fix listening post, glider, optical network, data gathering and data fusion , Centralized computer system
3 SURTASS ships is close to commissioning, The installation of super sensitive listening post in Marianna trench
Proliferation of KQ200 as seen below
Future technology is in the work as SQUID super sensitive array of MAD, Anti Sub satellite using microwave and LIDAR is in the work (budgeted)
30 type 56 corvette specializing in hunting sub
20 plus Yuan submarine properly station in Choke point should provide intelligence and ambush capability
Jane has an article
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An our friend Bltzo dod good summary on the improving Chinese anti sub warfare
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