055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Jeff Head]

Could some one explain what is that "lamp post" on the main mast? It ruins the main mast altogether I hope they redesign the main mast in the production vessels.

That is a mast full of various sensors (ie. ESM).

They would not put it there on a lark...and it certainly does not "ruin," the mast in the least.

They do not build these things for aesthetics.

While it would be nice to have a totally integrated mast with everything held within...in reality that is not as easy to do as one would think. Even on the US San Antonio Class, which is known for its integrated mast...they have something very similar on top:

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[shen]

Could some one explain what is that "lamp post" on the main mast? It ruins the main mast altogether I hope they redesign the main mast in the production vessels.

it is an ESM mast. commonly placed at the highest point on many warships to intercept enemy EM transmission.

 

[Blitzo]

The three arrays on the integrated mast seem to be set in. I wonder if the 346A arrays on the port side of the mock up have been installed...

 

[Blitzo]

That is a mast full of various sensors (ie. ESM).

They would not put it there on a lark...and it certainly does not "ruin," the mast in the least.

They do not build these things for aesthetics.

While it would be nice to have a totally integrated mast with everything held within...in reality that is not as easy to do as one would think. Even on the US San Antonio Class, which is known for its integrated mast...they have something very similar on top:

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San Antonio has more of an enclosed mast -- ships like Zumwalt and some european ships with the i-mast and other designs are more like integrated masts. That is to say, I think the arrays in an integrated mast are actually embedded on the surface of the mast rather than simply surrounded by it like a massive radome. But there is a spectrum I suppose.

I think having the ESM mast on top may be necessary to detect emissions which might be weaker if it were enclosed... but who knows.

 

[mzyw]

Thanks Jeff, what's your option on that mast why did they just left it exposed with out integration into the main mast (e.g. add a top section or hosing structure) like the European ships?
I understand you don't do things in military for aesthetic reasons, but what wouldn't the current design have a negative effect on the stealth aspect of the ship, after all the mast will be the first thing enemy radar will see over the horizon?

 

[Blitzo]

Thanks Jeff, what's your option on that mast why did they just left it exposed with out integration into the main mast (e.g. add a top section or hosing structure) like the European ships?
I understand you don't do things in military for aesthetic reasons, but what wouldn't the current design have a negative effect on the stealth aspect of the ship, after all the mast will be the first thing enemy radar will see over the horizon?

The ESM mast is small, low profile and its contribution to RCS is correspondingly small. Given that 055 isn't meant to be a super stealthy ship like zumwalt, the slight compromise in RCS is alright given the rest of the ship likely contributes far more to RCS already.

In other words, leaving it out in the open probably isn't seen as a big sacrifice. Then again they might end up putting a cover over it on the actual ship, who knows.

 

[mzyw]

Thanks Bltizo, just like you side ESM mast should be small, but that mast on top is definitely more than just ESM. From eye balling it that mast is not small at all, that is why I think it will have a big impact on stealthness of 055 if left as it is, hopefully in production model this can be addressed.

 

[shen]

The ESM mast is small, low profile and its contribution to RCS is correspondingly small. Given that 055 isn't meant to be a super stealthy ship like zumwalt, the slight compromise in RCS is alright given the rest of the ship likely contributes far more to RCS already.

In other words, leaving it out in the open probably isn't seen as a big sacrifice. Then again they might end up putting a cover over it on the actual ship, who knows.

ESM antenna must be sensitive across the entire EM spectrum to intercept radar and communication signal, unlike radars which are tuned to a specific wave band. To enclose ESM antenna, the enclosure would have to be transparent to practical all wave bands, so what's the point?

 

[Blitzo]

Thanks Bltizo, just like you side ESM mast should be small, but that mast on top is definitely more than just ESM. From eye balling it that mast is not small at all, that is why I think it will have a big impact on stealthness of 055 if left as it is, hopefully in production model this can be addressed.

There's an aviation radar atop (the saucer shaped radar) but apart from that I think the rest of the mast is for ESM purposes. Compared to the rest of the integrated mast, it is indeed very small.

The ESM mast, relative to the rest of the ship does not contribute much RCS because the rest of the ship has a sizable RCS to begin with. Say, without the ESM mast 055 might have the RCS of a standard fishing boat. With the ESM mast it'll just be a mildly larger fishing boat. The difference for 055's mission is minor if barely existent.

Furthermore, 055 will be a ship with active emissions as well, so comprehensive radar stealth isn't that necessary if the opfor can use passive sensors to detect and track you.

055's gun and ciws probably won't be enclosed, nor will its aft radar mast be. Its bow and aft superstructures are separate as well, further providing more contributions to RCS.
There are still overall RCS reduction measures which give 055 a far smaller RCS than a ship of its size built in the 80s or 90s, but the point I'm saying is that the ESM mast has a teeny tiny impact on 055's RCS and 055's RCS reduction measures overall has a teeny tiny effect on the kind of missions it is designed for.

 

[Jeff Head]

Thanks Jeff, what's your option on that mast why did they just left it exposed with out integration into the main mast (e.g. add a top section or hosing structure) like the European ships?

The function of those sensors requires that it basically be exposed...and most vessels do the same one way or another.

The Type 45 Darings for example have a very large mast structure that has similar sensors imbedded in it it. They are exposed around that structure and not on a separate mast...but that structure sets them up high enough already and that large structure, even with the angles itself producs a radar back image.

What you see on the Type 055 will be a very very small contribution to the whole of the vessel's radar return...but it will provide it with very critical electronic capabilities against potential adversaries...both in terms of detection and in terms of countering them.

All of it is a trade off.

The Type 055 is a principle combat ship...a Chinese Man of War. It will seek to minimize the ability for others to detect it, but it will not sacrifice its ability to wage war and diminish a potential adversary's capabilities to do so.

I understand you don't do things in military for aesthetic reasons, but what wouldn't the current design have a negative effect on the stealth aspect of the ship, after all the mast will be the first thing enemy radar will see over the horizon?

As I said, the negative impact is minimal compared to what they gain by putting those sensors in the open and up high. It is a cost benefit analysis and the Chinese Naval designers and Engineers, and planners have done their homework and come up with what they feel is the optimal solution.