054B/new generation frigate

So, 100 054A vs 100 frigate with higher end armament such as better ASHM missile or better Air Defense missile.
A less expensive frigate means you can reach desired hull counts and have more money remaining for destroyers, submarines, even carriers and LHD/LHAs. Even an entire flotilla of frigates armed with x16 YJ-12 each cannot match the offensive capabilities of a single 055. The design priorities for a PLAN frigate should be the cheapest platform that would be able to : 1) ability to keep up with PLAN surface task forces (in terms of speed and endurance) 2) ASW capability 3) modern sensors/electronics at the same level as other modern PLAN surface combatants.
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Sounds all nice but in reality the type 054A are being launched with their primary sensor stemming from the Soviet era and no upgrade in sight. Meanwhile GaN based AESA modules are freely available to buy on Alibaba.

A chain is as strong as its weakest link..

Suppose you have a carrier group with escorts
For close-in ASW work against an incoming submarine, you want to use the least valuable and most expendable ship possible.

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And your analogy is not accurate.
It's not a chain where every single ship is dependent on every other ship.

It's a battle network with nodes customised to different missions and capabilities.
 

by78

General
High-resolution versions of recently share images.

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Kich

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm starting to think these two ships are one off and might precede something else upcoming.

It's why they haven't bothered with significant weapons upgrades compared to the 054A. They are more focused on sensors and possibly power plants; testing them out before moving to the real next FFG.
 

nemo

Junior Member
Sounds all nice but in reality the type 054A are being launched with their primary sensor stemming from the Soviet era and no upgrade in sight. Meanwhile GaN based AESA modules are freely available to buy on Alibaba.

A chain is as strong as its weakest link..
It's not that simple -- there are multiple issues that needs to be resolved. What are the impact to stability when you put that much weight high on the ship? The may be a reason why 054B is a larger ship due to this. You need to do EM interference test also. These are just some of issues I can think of offhand.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Sounds all nice but in reality the type 054A are being launched with their primary sensor stemming from the Soviet era and no upgrade in sight. Meanwhile GaN based AESA modules are freely available to buy on Alibaba.

A chain is as strong as its weakest link..
When was GaN TR modules began to be freely available on Alibaba? I know it is now.

Arleigh Burke class has only been delivered with AESA from 2023 (flight iii). The last flight iia ship DDG-124 laid down in 2021 was still PESA when AESA was available for a long time.

Ship (and any large systems) is not lego that you can just pile up things at will as post stated in #2,126
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Some people lack reading comprehension

More like you don't have a good grasp on what you're talking about.

Like, do you really believe that the PLAN in 2024 is still procuring the exact same OG 054As as if they were from the mid-2000s? Really?

As a guy with some background in the engineering field - I can tell you that there can be (and often is the case) A LOT of behind-the-scene iterations and upgrades going on for any type of equipment or machinery that can look from the outside as if it was unchanged/only changing a little from the 1990s or 2000s. There're plenty of things going on behind those thin metal sheets of the warship's walls that we outsiders don't really know or realize.

In addition, the "G" in the "054AGs" (also known as the 5th batch of the 054A-class) doesn't stand for nothing. Those four thin strip of AESA panels installed above the bridge and helicopter hangar superstructures of the 054AGs are the most noticeable case of that.

And needless to say - There is A LOT MORE behind those simple, clean-looking AESA panels on the 054AGs, 054Bs, 052Cs, 052D/DGs and 055s. You don't just buy some AESA modules from Alibaba, install it on a major surface combatant of the 2nd largest navy in the world, and call it a day.

If I assume 054B to have similar sailor count. That means those sailors could be much more efficient and capable if they are provided with a ship with better armament.

We don't know if the 054B will have the same sailor count as the 054A, so I don't think it'd be wise to speculate much based on that.

So, 100 054A vs 100 frigate with higher end armament such as better ASHM missile or better Air Defense missile.

And we're already seeing how that goes on the other side of the Pacific, with how the USN trying to make the Constellations into essentially mini-Burkes - Instead of the "do-your-job-as-told"-type FFGs like the 054A/AGs and 054Bs - Is turning out.

Besides, people often forgot that unlike the USN, the PLAN is not operating as a truly expeditionary navy (at least for the near future). Much of the PLAN's wartime operations are to be confined to the 2IC at the furthest, realistic extent.

Moreover, unlike the PN, RAN or RCN, for example - The 054A/AG is neither the only major surface combatant of the PLAN, nor is the 054A the top-tier surface combatant of the PLAN. There's still the larger and more capable 052D/DGs and 055s that are currently being serial-produced for the PLAN which do the heavy lifting in air defense and anti-ship missions.

Hence, if anything - I'd prefer that even as the 054Bs do not have the top-tier air-defense and anti-ship capabilities, the 054Bs should be equipped with the best anti-submarine capabilities that the Chinese MIC can offer - And with the anti-submarine capabilities that are comparable to (if not on par with) the US and Japanese counterparts.
 
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ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Another key point regarding the choice of YJ-83 instead of YJ-12 for the 054B FFGs - Those slanted missile canisters for launching the YJ-83 can also be used for launching Yu-11 ASW missiles.

In the meantime, the YJ-12 slanted missile canisters are not known to possess such functionality.

Considering the role played by the 054A/AGs and 054Bs in the PLAN - It does make sense, when you think about it. Since those YJ-83 slanted missile canisters onboard the 054s, 054A/AGs and 054Bs can offer an added degree of flexibility when it comes to ASW missions (i.e. the Yu-11s can be fired from them), this can leave all of the 32x 650mm VLS cells to be filled with HHQ-16s (and hopefully quad-packable MRSAMs in the future).

Besides, when it comes to anti-shipping missions - There's the 052C, 052D/DG and 055 DDGs to rely upon with their YJ-62s, YJ-18s and YJ-21s, apart from strike aircrafts fielded by the PLANAF and PLAAF. China isn't exactly short of ways to conduct anti-ship warfare against enemy warships.
 
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grulle

Junior Member
Registered Member
the YJ-83 is not THAT bad. 200kg warhead, terminal speed Mach 1.4, 180km range. A harpoon has 220km range and 221kg warhead, and also MUCH slower throughout. The most powerful navy in the world still mainly relies on it with only half hearted attempts to replace it.
 
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