Some cutters of China Coast Guard have IEP, supposed to be an indigenous system, not exactly civilian though.
And some civilian ferries as far as I know. But I don't think they're that comparable with war ships.
054B/new generation frigate
- Thread starter Blitzo
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And some civilian ferries as far as I know. But I don't think they're that comparable with war ships.
The refit 052 received around 2004 was quite significant too. Since the two 052s are the last ships still equiped the obsolete HHQ-7 (besides 521&524, which were planned to be sold), I don't believe PLAN plans to use them as combatants for 10 more years. Especially, 112 is always used as a command ship.
I don't think you understand what "mass production" means.
For 055, they "only" launched one 055 in 2017, but in 2018 they launched three 055s, in 2019 they launched two 055s, in 2020 they launched two 055s.
However, in 2017, when they launched "only" one 055, they had already began mass production, because the nature of warships is that they are long lead items, and even though in 2017 only one 055 was launched, the work on the second to eighth 055s had already began at varying stages.
For 054B, if they launch "only" one 054B in say, 2024, and say if they "only" launch two 054Bs in 2025, that does not mean the ship hasn't started mass production -- because in those years they could've already began work on successive ships up to the eighth hull or more intended to be launched in 2026, 2027 or onwards.
That is what I mean by saying I don't believe that there will be a "planned gap" in mass production. If we assume steel cutting for hull #1 has indeed begun (and therefore hull #1 would be launched in 2024), then my position for a yearly launch for mass production of 054Bs without a planned gap, could look something similar to this in terms of 054Bs launched per year:
2024 - 1 054B
2025 - 2 054B
2026 - 4 054B
2027 - 4 054B
2028 - 4 054B
2029 - 054B production continues...
Whereas on the other hand, the whole point of what you wrote was that you wanted a planned gap after the first batch of two to four ships were built, for a pause of "a couple of years" per your post #172. Assuming an initial batch of four ships with a two year gap, using a similar initial launch of the first 054B in 2024 to mine, the annual 054Bs launched would look something like this:
2024 - 1 054B
2025 - 2 054B
2026 - 1 054B
2027 - no 054B due to "planned gap"
2028 - no 054B due to "planned gap"
2029 - 054B production recommences...
Do you see the difference, and do you understand why my position is one of going into mass production immediately?
Do you understand that even if they only launch 1 or 2 054Bs in the first couple of years of production, that the ship class itself could still have entered mass production, if they've already began work on the next ships that would be launched in the third, fourth and fifth years of production???
For now, we are calling it 054B.
Until such a time where credible people in the grapevine call it something else, we will also follow.
We also don't know whether the prime movers and propulsion arrangement of a warship class follows the same "05X" prefix. If 054B is indeed IEPS, and if 054B is indeed called 054B, then it would also help to clarify that aspect of things.
But for now, for the sake of general discussion, it's reasonable to call it 054B until a different name starts being used.
I don't think you get me right. What you described is exactly the problem here. When you still don't know wether the new system works or not, you already put a series of ships in production. Under the worst scenario, you may have to fix a lot of modules that you have already made. That can waste a lot of resources, which is never the philosophy of PLA.
Not sure if they should test IEP on a cost sensitive or a cost priority platform like the 054B. Maybe on the 055A or the Type 076, but not something I expect to be mass produced. The ships are going to have to retain something that made the 054/054A series a cost effective and reliable platform. If they are actually putting such in a frigate, you would be sure it would already be thoroughly tested before they would even do it.
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I am not sure how significant is that compared to the one in '12, which introduced modern ASW sonars and EW equipment to the ship. As for the HQ-7 it has been updated, and I don't think its anymore as outdated as the HQ-17/Tor-M1.
What I described is not a problem, because in my position, the whole reason that they would be comfortable doing mass production is that they do not foresee 054B having major issues in the first place, and if there are minor teething issues, they have 20 054As to pick up the slack. I wrote this before in post #184.
Basically, you are arguing that you think there are subsystems in the 054B which is insufficiently mature, which is why they will only produce a few ships in an initial batch before a pause of a couple of years.
Whereas I am arguing that I think they could have subsystems in the 054B which are sufficiently mature that they are comfortable to start mass production from the outset.
Please re-read my replies to you and your replies to me on the last few pages. Basically everything that you are writing and which you are asking, I have already addressed or answered.