054B/new generation frigate

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
What is the job of a surface combatant:
A) Is it nothing more than a ship that plays a "supporting role" (ASW and AAW) in a carrier battle group?
B) Can it also provide some power projection capabilities in sinking enemy ships?

If you believe A) is true then you're probably right, the PLA navy does not need that many Type 055 ships. They should build at most 16 ships and stop right there.
However
If you believe B) is true then PLA navy needs Lots and Lots more Type 055 ships.
Carriers are going to become more and more obsolete going forward as anti-ship missile technology continues to improve. Missiles will always be cheaper and have more range than a carrier with its air wing. So, a big, expensive carrier with a huge crew is a big liability cause all you need is one hit to sink it. You have a carrier that costs 10 billion, a crew and air wing that costed maybe 100 billion to train and build. thats a juicy lucrative target for the enemy. Even if the enemy spends 1000 missiles its cost effective to target and destroy a carrier. You can over saturate any defenses with large enough salvo of missiles that are fast, manuverable and come from different altitudes.

So, Long term, Navys might switch to maybe much smaller carriers, perhaps drone carriers in order to spread out their firepower instead of concentrating on a big huge carrier. They might switch to relying more on surface ships to project firepower via the use of various types of missiles. Air defense missiles for anti-Air, Cruise missiles for ground attack. Drones or a limited number of manned planes could provide the over the horizon radar capability. That's the only thing you need actually from a plane. Over the horizon radar capability is the only capability for which you need a plane. Everything else can including air defense, ground attack, ship-attack can be done by missiles.

The future of naval power could be surface ships once again which become the main fighting component while carriers become a support role just to provide over the horizon targetting.
 

bebops

Junior Member
Registered Member
Aircraft carriers aren't good future platforms. It is better to have each manned warships like 052D or 055 controlled an independent unmanned warship.

The unmanned warship has 50-70% of the firepower of an manned warship The unmanned warship could be acted as an ISR and bodyguard for whatever one warship linked with.
 

charles18

Junior Member
Registered Member
Carriers are going to become more and more obsolete going forward as anti-ship missile technology continues to improve. Missiles will always be cheaper and have more range than a carrier with its air wing. So, a big, expensive carrier with a huge crew is a big liability ....
I agree.
Missiles are designed to "commit suicide". They can burn all their fuel reserves to reach their intended target. Aircraft do not have this option. They must save some of their fuel to make a U-turn and return to home base. Because of this, an aircraft's combat radius is less than long range missiles.

Unless somebody wants to volunteer to become a Kamikaze pilot, if we're speaking purely about range the missile will defeat the aircraft.
 

5unrise

Junior Member
Registered Member
I agree.
Missiles are designed to "commit suicide". They can burn all their fuel reserves to reach their intended target. Aircraft do not have this option. They must save some of their fuel to make a U-turn and return to home base. Because of this, an aircraft's combat radius is less than long range missiles.

Unless somebody wants to volunteer to become a Kamikaze pilot, if we're speaking purely about range the missile will defeat the aircraft.
Aircraft carry missiles for anti-surface strike themselves, and by definition an aircraft delivering the same missile will have greater range than the missile fired by a ship, to say nothing of the advantages associated with launching from a higher altitude....
 

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
Aircraft carry missiles for anti-surface strike themselves, and by definition an aircraft delivering the same missile will have greater range than the missile fired by a ship, to say nothing of the advantages associated with launching from a higher altitude....
Just build a bigger missile launched from a ship, a missile that a naval aircraft cannot carry due to its size and weight. It will have bigger range than the aircraft+missile combo.

The only difference is, it might be cheaper per missile to use a plane+missile than to use the bigger missile, atleast for now.

But then factor in the danger of a massive 100 billion dollar carrier+air wing, the huge time needed to train air crew, then that air crew getting destroyed by a single lucky missile hit. Then compare the cost of losing that carrier to a distributed firepower of 50 surface ships armed with big, long range missiles and no need to train costly airwing. Then the cost+benefit scale starts to favor distributed lethality.

Medieval archers were able to shoot faster and more accurately than a man with a musket. That musket was very inaccurate. Each arrow was also cheaper than a musket bullet and gun powder.

But a man can be easily trained to shoot a musket in a few days. You could create mass army with it. Not so for archers.

Carrier air wings will lose their relevance as the main force of naval battle and maybe take a subordinate role and smaller role due to this dynamic.
 

tanino

New Member
Registered Member
Thank you, interesting insight. When artificial intelligence has made (3-5 years) a decisive breakthrough and a missile (and a drone certainly better) will be able to perform within a 500/700 km radius most of the possible missions of an embarked aircraft (say 70/75%) then aircraft carriers will be outdated (aka: cost greater than any operational benefit).

Well done guys, good thinking.
 
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