054B/new generation frigate

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
The 054B being built at Huangpu appears to sport a different gun turret design; it seems to have additional facets on its sides compared to the one being built in Shanghai (last two images).

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Update: The turret has been wrapped with coverings.
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Also, a notice regarding some major work involving a stretch of waterway located right beside the shipyard, effective from today (24th) to the 28th of September. Could the 054B (and the CCG's 054A-mod) be launched during that time period?
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Posted by @燃烧的哈尔科夫 on Weibo.
 

Hitomi

Junior Member
Registered Member
Since there is so much discussion about the 100mm gun, I am curious about which version of the compact did China buy in the past. Did they get the MK2 version of the 100mm compact with the ROF of 90rpm in 6 round bursts or the MK1 version with 78rpm?
 

ChongqingHotPot92

Junior Member
Registered Member
Since there is so much discussion about the 100mm gun, I am curious about which version of the compact did China buy in the past. Did they get the MK2 version of the 100mm compact with the ROF of 90rpm in 6 round bursts or the MK1 version with 78rpm?
Pretty sure it was the mk1 version since the tech transfers occurred prior to 1989, I believe. But I’m pretty sure if it is not that difficult to increase the rate of fire using domestic technologies. The AK-176 has a rate of fire of 120 rpm, literally making it a machine cannon and effective AA gun against subsonic targets (even Harpoons and Tomahawks, as long as the proximity fuses are accurate enough). Not sure if advances in material science and metallurgy could allow the same rate of fire for the French 100mm, allowing it to have dual-purpose roles. Another issue is muzzle velocity. The AK-176 can reach 970 m/s, and such high muzzle velocity is vital for effective targeting of subsonic flying targets. The French 100mm only has a muzzle velocity of 850-870 m/s, which is similar to those of WWII era AA gun in terms of muzzle velocity. Thus, higher chamber pressure (material sciences), faster burning propellents, higher rate of fire (100-150 rpm), and even longer ranges (20+ km) would all be ideal to make the new 100mm far superior to the Ak-176, original French 100mm, and the Otto Malera 76mm.
 
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Hitomi

Junior Member
Registered Member
Pretty sure it was the mk1 version since the tech transfers occurred prior to 1989, I believe. But I’m pretty sure if it is not that difficult to increase the rate of fire using domestic technologies. The AK-176 has a rate of fire of 120 rpm, literally making it a machine cannon and effective AA gun against subsonic targets (even Harpoons and Tomahawks, as long as the proximity fuses are accurate enough). Not sure if advances in material science and metallurgy could allow the same rate of fire for the French 100mm, allowing it to have dual-purpose roles. Another issue is muzzle velocity. The AK-176 can reach 970 m/s, and such high muzzle velocity is vital for effective targeting of subsonic flying targets. The French 100mm only has a muzzle velocity of 850-870 m/s, which is similar to those of WWII era AA gun in terms of muzzle velocity. Thus, higher chamber pressure (material sciences), faster burning propellents, higher rate of fire (100-150 rpm), and even longer ranges (20+ km) would all be ideal to make the new 100mm far superior to the Ak-176, original French 100mm, and the Otto Malera 76mm.
90 rpm should be more than sufficient, even the Russian A-190 only goes up to 80 according to online sources. Go too fast and the ammo reserve will be cleaned through too quickly.

I believe in the PLAN's assessment of the optimal caliber and ROF for the main gun in its role for AA, CIWS, naval gunfire support and defense against armed boats.(Even though personally I think focusing too much on the main gun of a modern warship to be unnecessary.)
 

ChongqingHotPot92

Junior Member
Registered Member
90 rpm should be more than sufficient, even the Russian A-190 only goes up to 80 according to online sources. Go too fast and the ammo reserve will be cleaned through too quickly.

I believe in the PLAN's assessment of the optimal caliber and ROF for the main gun in its role for AA, CIWS, naval gunfire support and defense against armed boats.(Even though personally I think focusing too much on the main gun of a modern warship to be unnecessary.)
The advantage of A-190 is that it had a 20+ km range. As much as missiles are far more important today, naval artillery still matters just in case the enemy somehow comes within 20 km (or 35 km for destroyers with 5-inch calibre guns. Missiles are saved for high value long-range targets.
 

Lethe

Captain
Anyway, what’s the point of switching back to the old French gun lol?

That should be easy - 130mm is too much, 76mm is not enough. The gun itself may be old but the mount most probably is not as there were reliability issues to be ironed out.

Is it possible that the switch from the 100mm gun on 054 to the 76mm on 054A was not driven so much by inadequate performance and reliability of the 100mm, but rather by volume and/or weight distribution (i.e. stability) considerations in the context of the switch from HQ-9 on 054 to HQ-16 on 054A?
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Is it possible that the switch from the 100mm gun on 054 to the 76mm on 054A was not driven so much by inadequate performance and reliability of the 100mm, but rather by volume and/or weight distribution (i.e. stability) considerations in the context of the switch from HQ-9 on 054 to HQ-16 on 054A?

My recall of the rumours even back then, was that the issues were with the 100mm gun itself. I don't recall anything about the overall stability or fitout of the systems of the ship
 
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