054B/new generation frigate

SlothmanAllen said:

If I understand this correct, a spinning radar provides you with 360 degree coverage while only using two panels which makes it a cost effective solution. The downside is that since the radar is spinning, it is technically doesn't provide the same tracking capability/capacity as having four panels for "true" 360 degree coverage?

Click to expand...

It's more about diminishing capabilities in terms of updating and tracking than coverage as I understand it. Rotating arrays' search and track update times are quantized and so the track initiation process is more constrained than fixed arrays. So naturally they have lower performance in tracking especially against fast-moving and crossing targets. In addition, fewer arrays and fewer "window" makes beam scheduling harder. There's also the problem of not having nearly as good overlapping coverage between arrays to make up for the diminishing performance of sidelobes.

You do get some major benefits however especially on frigates like 054B as rotating twin panels allow for a much larger array without making the vessel top-heavy. It's a trade worth taking presumably for extended detection range for longer-range missiles (HQ16F vs HQ16). In any case, there's the rapid response radar on aft mast to support the main arrays.

Yet another one!

SlothmanAllen said:

If I understand this correct, a spinning radar provides you with 360 degree coverage while only using two panels which makes it a cost effective solution. The downside is that since the radar is spinning, it is technically doesn't provide the same tracking capability/capacity as having four panels for "true" 360 degree coverage?

Click to expand...

A fixed phased array radar does both horizontal and vertical scans on the same face. It's rate of update is determined electronically.

On a rotating phase or planar array radar, the radar does a vertical scan electronically but the horizontal scan is done mechanically through the radar's rotation. That puts a mechanical limit to your update rate, unless the radar does a counterclockwise horizontal scan. Putting two faces instead of one, like you see in SAMPSON and Heracles, and what's likely on the 054B radar, doubles the rate of horizontal update from the rate of revolution.

Since the update rate of a rotating radar doesn't match the fixed radar, you can't track the target as lag free in real time to provide a weapons quality fire control track. But that's not the job of the search radar, it hands that job by queuing a true fire control radar to that target that will both high quality track and illuminate the target for a SARH missile.

However in the case of an ARH missile, the active radar guidance allows for having a more loose target track up to a certain point since final determination of the target track is determined by the missile guidance system. So a search radar able to reach the minimum tracking requirements might be all you need for active guided missiles.

SlothmanAllen said:

If I understand this correct, a spinning radar provides you with 360 degree coverage while only using two panels which makes it a cost effective solution. The downside is that since the radar is spinning, it is technically doesn't provide the same tracking capability/capacity as having four panels for "true" 360 degree coverage?

Click to expand...

At a very high level yes you are correct however in reality it's all about balancing capabilities vs cost and functional specs.
The most modern radars especially S Band beam forming amdr in flt 3 ABs, they use stackable RMA modules to make up the entire phased array... the more RMAs the better. The SPY 6 victor 2 EASR for ex are basically rotating phase arrays with smaller RMAs while the V1 with 4 fixed arrays would be the most capable.
Each phase array you see on Aegis ships or PLAN DDGs consist of multiple individual modules. The bigger the array the more modules. The more modules the better the sensitivity.
Due to size, power limitations as well as function it's not possible to fit 4 very large fixed arrays on an FFG.
I'm thinking 054B may be fitted with something not too different than EASR victor 2. Maybe a 2 face array rotation.

Wondering if it would be possible for a squadron of multiple 054Bs to synchronize their radars in a way that would achieve 360 degree coverage at all times by merging the data from each node into a single unified view of the battlespace to approach the same tracking performance as fixed array systems.

Cloud_Nine_ said:

View attachment 115203
Yet another one!

Click to expand...

If this were true, it is still marginally less armed compared to the Constellation. The Constellation deliberately put 16 NSM missiles in its rear (like the 167 Shenzhen) for intensive surface combat in the Western Pacific. However, this design only allows for 8 YJ-12, which are good missiles, but having 16 (like the Shenzhen) would be better.

ChongqingHotPot92 said:

If this were true, it is still marginally less armed compared to the Constellation. The Constellation deliberately put 16 NSM missiles in its rear (like the 167 Shenzhen) for intensive surface combat in the Western Pacific. However, this design only allows for 8 YJ-12, which are good missiles, but having 16 (like the Shenzhen) would be better.

Click to expand...

This is not an apples to apples comparison. Neither the two ships nor the two missiles are in the same weight class. Prioritization of roles that each ship fulfills within their respective fleet structures are also not the same.

16 YJ-12s take up a lot of space tho.

SlothmanAllen said:

If I understand this correct, a spinning radar provides you with 360 degree coverage while only using two panels which makes it a cost effective solution. The downside is that since the radar is spinning, it is technically doesn't provide the same tracking capability/capacity as having four panels for "true" 360 degree coverage?

Click to expand...

Essentially, yes.
A spinning/rotating radar provides less capable 360 degree constant tracking (i.e.: making it more technically vulnerable to high intensity multi axis attacks) -- but the faster the radar rotates, the less of an issue that is (and the more arrays it has).

For example SAMPSON is a twin faced AESA with 30 rotations a minute, which can provide near constant coverage.

FriedRiceNSpice said:

Wondering if it would be possible for a squadron of multiple 054Bs to synchronize their radars in a way that would achieve 360 degree coverage at all times by merging the data from each node into a single unified view of the battlespace to approach the same tracking performance as fixed array systems.

Click to expand...

There's no reason for that, let the frigates focus on what they are doing, and if the environment needed 360 degree constant coverage, they can just give an 052D to the flotilla.

Cloud_Nine_ said:

16 YJ-12s take up a lot of space tho.

Click to expand...

A smarter design would simply involve adding additional 16-32 VLS in the rear.