054B/new generation frigate

Clark Gap said:

China's 100mm naval gun, which is based on French technology, was originally designed for anti-aircraft purposes. It possesses an extremely high muzzle velocity and a flat trajectory.

Click to expand...

I thought the original French 100mm design only has a muzzle velocity of 870 m/s, which is less than those of both the Chinese/Russian 76mm (AK-176) and 130mm. Also, the AK-176/H/PJ-26 has a muzzle velocity of 980 m/s plus a rate of fire of 120 rpm. The French 100mm only has a rate of fire of roughly 90 rpm. Having said that, of course the French 100mm packs a heavier punch per round giving its bigger size and loads.

ACuriousPLAFan said:

Found a rough illustration of the newly captured photo of the 054B FFG, which compares her to the 055 DDG and old & newer 054A FFGs.

View attachment 113752

Does look more like a mini-055/micro-055 than a 054A/052D.

Click to expand...

That kind of bow and hull design is common with modern frigates and some other PLAN ships like the Type 071. Modern ships are looking alike to reduce RCS, and this got the 054A beat. More of the ship reflects radar upwards than towards the water which creates a corner reflector.

Ship differs significantly from the 052D and 055 on that it lacks fixed mounted main radars. That part now is obvious with this picture. The thicker mast is meant to support a heavier rotating mass at the top which points to a large AESA radar. However this mast maybe more similar to the 055 in the rest of it by supporting panels for ESM and CEC.

If the target illuminators are not installed on the rear hanger through bezels, they would have to be installed on this mast.

But if the main mast does not integrate the illuminators, this leaves you that they will be integrated on a second mast behind the funnels. But if this second mast does not feature illuminators either, good chance the missiles are now actively guided.

There is no indication to me the ship will mount an ESM mast behind the radar like the 054A did so this implies the ESM mast will have to be on a second mast.

It look like plan equivalent of spy-7(v3)

Once again if we don't see holes for target illuminators anywhere else in the ship, it can be on the mast.

I currently don't see a platform for the gunnery fire control radar, which is the Type 344 on the 054 and 052 series, and the Type 347G on the 054A. The platform can be built later, or it won't be fitted at all.

If not fitted, this means the mast will have to integrate a flat panel radar to do so. This would be a small AESA X band radar, and this radar architecture is already used on the 055.

Having separate X-band target illuminators and separate X-band gunnery fire control radars is just plain costly, means 8 panels and where you're going to put this. For efficiency, you might as well have you a single set 4 panel X-band AESA MF radar with modes for target illumination and another mode for surface gunfire. The panels will have to be integrated to the front mast.

What are the design considerations for main guns on ships this dimension? Is it like a large CIWS?

TK3600 said:

What are the design considerations for main guns on ships this dimension? Is it like a large CIWS?

Click to expand...

100mm caliber allows literally everything, good.
That's it's point.

ChongqingHotPot92 said:

I thought the original French 100mm design only has a muzzle velocity of 870 m/s, which is less than those of both the Chinese/Russian 76mm (AK-176) and 130mm. Also, the AK-176/H/PJ-26 has a muzzle velocity of 980 m/s plus a rate of fire of 120 rpm. The French 100mm only has a rate of fire of roughly 90 rpm. Having said that, of course the French 100mm packs a heavier punch per round giving its bigger size and loads.

Click to expand...

They could extend the barrel to compensate for the velocity loss if they really need it. The Soviets have elongated their 100mm to L/70 and the Russians are using a variant of it on their frigates already. The French 100mm ROF is pretty good for its caliber, just need to fix the sustained fire rate and the slight reduction in muzzle velocity would be fine with the increased range and explosive filling.

No, Russian A-190 is still L/59.

If you're going to use a 4 panel X-band MFR, like German APAR or the Type 055's mast radar, chances are the gun would be at least a 100m. The 76mm gun actually requires a Ku band radar set with extreme resolution and tracking rate. This is why the 76mm uses the Type 347G radar as it's fire control, which is also the same radar mounted and used on the Type 730/1130 CIWS, except on the 76mm, the radar is mounted as a separate system. With a CIWS type radar, the 76mm can be considered a dual role CIWS.

If the 054B retained the 76mm gun, it would need to have a platform for a Ku-band FCR that has to be mounted on a gimbal. The Type 347G already has a phased array successor seen on the Fujian's CIWS, and this radar should be able to be mounted separately like it's predecessor.

So it's good to pay attention to the space above the bridge where or not, a gun FCR can be mounted. It's presence or absence will determine the gun used on the 054B.

Red Shark updated his model of the new frigate.