054/A FFG Thread II

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xiabonan

Junior Member
Tam said:
If I were the PN, I would go with better radars, which is not uncommon with the export versions, like the last two Bangladesh Type 056 corvettes have.


View attachment 47115

For example, I would fit the SR2410C in place of the Type 382.

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I would put this phase array on the second mast at the funnel where the Type 364 usually is. This radar has been associated with the LY-80N which is the export HHQ-16. This is similar to the land based radars used for the HQ-16, and which Pakistan has acquired. Using this would be more familiar with the Pakistanis.


View attachment 47116


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Calling the guidance radar L-band is writer's error. Its a certainty its an X-band, or I band in the old NATO classification system.


Export LY-80s feature rear TVC controls, and those spokes on the tail might be for mid phase control of the missile.


View attachment 47117


One question is whether the PN should use a naval version of the Sky Dragon 50, aka SD-50, given that they are already SD-10 users.


Can this be quad packed on a H/AJK-16 VLS? If not, dual packed? Or best used with the U-VLS in quad packed fashion?

Surely the PN must want to get the most out of their money from these ships. Having an SD-50/DK-10 on these ships, would significantly transform the combat value you get out of 32 VLS cells. Plus the fact that the missiles are active guided, they are not limited by your illumination systems, only by the number of datalink channels you for the missiles, allowing for a high number of simultaneous engagement. It would work well with the radars above, as the land based SD-50 is meant to work with the support radars for the LY-80 like the IBIS-150 and the IBIS-200.
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I've seen on Weibo that this does seem to be the case, with the new radar replacing the existing one on the 054A. Someone posted a photo of the model ship that's representing the real one, though I can't find it right now. That said, take this with a grain of salt as more proof is indeed needed.
 
T

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
xiabonan said:
I've seen on Weibo that this does seem to be the case, with the new radar replacing the existing one on the 054A. Someone posted a photo of the model ship that's representing the real one, though I can't find it right now. That said, take this with a grain of salt as more proof is indeed needed.
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Wow I like to see that model.

Also if PN has a requirement to use Babur on the ship, they will have to use U-VLS. To compensate for the needed length/height of the VLS, they may have to raise the VLS.

This has an example using the CSIC 4000 ton frigate proposed, they offered a variant without the target illuminator, which is the dome on top of the bridge, and with the VLS raised.

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I

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
plawolf said:
What VLS are they getting, standard or the new?

If I were the PN, I would opt for the new VLS even if it means fewer cells.

That is going to the where the PLAN will be focusing the lion share of their future weapons development on, so the PN would have far more weapons options off the shelf without needing to pay for development and integration themselves.

The larger cells and the ability to launch both cold and hot launched missiles would also give the PN a far more flexible ship, which may well actually be able to hold more missiles even with fewer cells when PLAN quad or more missile packing options becomes available or publicised.

If the play their cards right, they might even be able to get the PLAN to share or even cover the developmental costs of converting 054As to take the new UVLS as laying the fundations for a future PLAN 054A MLU programme.
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While such an upgrade would be a good way to help future-proof the 054A to an extent I seriously doubt the PN has the budget to order such a change to the design nor would the PLAN likely cover such developmental costs given their impending "054B" introduction. And while we have seen some similarly significant changes to ships, i.e. Sovs, the scale of such a 054A MLU is almost an order of magnitude more numerous and the bang for the buck far less than the VLS MLU for the Sovs.
 
D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
Well I expect the Pakistanis to at the very least procure a Type 54 that is better then what the PLAN is using atm, even if it is expensive. Like it or not, the Type 54s would most likely be the largest and most advanced surface combatants that Pakistant will have for the foreseeable future. And it is allayed against India's navy which while slow will have at least a ship that approaches the likes of the Type 52D, Burke and others in the form of the Visakhapatnam, heck even the current Kolkata is a credible ship.
Pakistan has shown that when times demanded it, it does not penny pinch. Like with the contract for the Yuan class subs. And now it definitely not a time to be penny pinching and be satisfied with a frigate that is getting long in the tooth.
Chinese firms have shown that they are not above collaborating with foreign defense companies to satisfy their customer's demand. As the C28A corvette deal has shown. So that is an area where Pakistan can explore in order to cut costs.
 
I

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
Viktor Jav said:
Well I expect the Pakistanis to at the very least procure a Type 54 that is better then what the PLAN is using atm, even if it is expensive. Like it or not, the Type 54s would most likely be the largest and most advanced surface combatants that Pakistant will have for the foreseeable future. And it is allayed against India's navy which while slow will have at least a ship that approaches the likes of the Type 52D, Burke and others in the form of the Visakhapatnam, heck even the current Kolkata is a credible ship.
Pakistan has shown that when times demanded it, it does not penny pinch. Like with the contract for the Yuan class subs. And now it definitely not a time to be penny pinching and be satisfied with a frigate that is getting long in the tooth.
Chinese firms have shown that they are not above collaborating with foreign defense companies to satisfy their customer's demand. As the C28A corvette deal has shown. So that is an area where Pakistan can explore in order to cut costs.
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There is nothing actually wrong with the 054A, nor is it getting "long in the tooth" just because the PLAN has a 054B in the works. This ship also certainly is not meant to be any kind of direct counter to the Project 15A/Bs of the IN. The current iteration plus/minus a radar here or there could easily be what the PN requires at this time.
 
D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
Iron Man said:
There is nothing actually wrong with the 054A, nor is it getting "long in the tooth" just because the PLAN has a 054B in the works. This ship also certainly is not meant to be any kind of direct counter to the Project 15A/Bs of the IN. The current iteration plus/minus a radar here or there could easily be what the PN requires at this time.
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Certainty there is nothing wrong with the current setup, but the current configuration and tech of it suits the PLAN more than it does the Pakistanis. Unless Pakistan has some plans in the future to get destroyers, these ship are going to be the front line vessels. And like it or not, their likely opponents are going to be the IN's DDGs, not to mention their airforce. Even if they are not meant to be a direct counter.
I am going with Tam's suggestion of an upgraded radar over the main stay Type 54As. And if they are going to stick with the HHQ-16s, they better get the upgrade versions with the extended range.
While Pakistant's navy can be easily satisfied with a baseline Type 54A at the moment, these ships are going to be in service for the next 30 years or so. So long time relevancy have to be considered as well.
 
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Lethe

Lethe

Captain
plawolf said:
What VLS are they getting, standard or the new?

If I were the PN, I would opt for the new VLS even if it means fewer cells.

That is going to the where the PLAN will be focusing the lion share of their future weapons development on, so the PN would have far more weapons options off the shelf without needing to pay for development and integration themselves.

The larger cells and the ability to launch both cold and hot launched missiles would also give the PN a far more flexible ship, which may well actually be able to hold more missiles even with fewer cells when PLAN quad or more missile packing options becomes available or publicised.

If the play their cards right, they might even be able to get the PLAN to share or even cover the developmental costs of converting 054As to take the new UVLS as laying the fundations for a future PLAN 054A MLU programme.
Click to expand...

The current rumour is that 054B will also be fitted with the H/AKJ-16 VLS as on 054A. As such it is not at all clear that PLAN considers it a legacy system that has been superseded by the 052D/055 VLS, but rather the two systems may continue to coexist for the foreseeable future. Nonetheless I expect that Pakistan would request and receive information about the long-term status of the system and planned/potential munitions and corresponding guidance/targeting requirements before making any decisions regarding VLS, radar fit, etc.
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
has China officially confirmed there's such a thing as "contract for Pakistani Type 054"
??

now used google, the most recent "article" on this topic is Pakistan Signs Contract for Type 054A Frigates from China
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EDIT
now noticed the tweet
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[Article] La marine pakistanaise signe pour deux autres frégate Type 054A

Translated from French by
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Article Pakistani Navy signs for two other frigate Type 054A
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…
 
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