054/A FFG Thread II

[Deleted member 13312]

Dec 2, 2017 while now
"A naval spokesman told Defense News that a “contract has been placed in June 2017” for one Type 054A Jiangkai II frigate featuring the same sensors and weaponry as Chinese ships. An order for two more is under consideration."
etc.: Pakistan shops for warships to replace British frigates, modernize Navy

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Hmm, I did expect Pakistan to get the Admiral Groshkov class instead. Seeing as they need to stretch out every dollar they spend on their ships. Problem is that is only plausible if Russia could at least deliver those damnned vessels on time.
But the Type 54A is a good vessel, though it might be significantly dated by the time the Pakistan Navy gets it. Maybe a future investment in the Type 57 frigate is a better choice.

 

[Jura The idiot]

Hmm, I did expect Pakistan to get the Admiral Groshkov class instead. Seeing as they need to stretch out every dollar they spend on their ships. Problem is that is only plausible if Russia could at least deliver those damnned vessels on time.
But the Type 54A is a good vessel, though it might be significantly dated by the time the Pakistan Navy gets it. Maybe a future investment in the Type 57 frigate is a better choice.

Yesterday at 11:48 AM

Nov 25, 2017

the Admiral Gorshkov to be commissioned "in 2018":

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and I'm waiting for Useful Idiots' reposts of Sputnik info about Russian nuclear-powered destroyers, new aircraft carrier program etc.

laid down in 2006

 

[asif iqbal]

Hmm, I did expect Pakistan to get the Admiral Groshkov class instead. Seeing as they need to stretch out every dollar they spend on their ships. Problem is that is only plausible if Russia could at least deliver those damnned vessels on time.
But the Type 54A is a good vessel, though it might be significantly dated by the time the Pakistan Navy gets it. Maybe a future investment in the Type 57 frigate is a better choice.

I am sure Chinese finance package is in place with this deal I doubt PN has the procurement budget for 4 x Type 054A

We are probably looking at over $1 billion

F22P was same $750 million package which I think Pakistan didn't even fully repay yet

 

[plawolf]

Hmm, I did expect Pakistan to get the Admiral Groshkov class instead. Seeing as they need to stretch out every dollar they spend on their ships. Problem is that is only plausible if Russia could at least deliver those damnned vessels on time.
But the Type 54A is a good vessel, though it might be significantly dated by the time the Pakistan Navy gets it. Maybe a future investment in the Type 57 frigate is a better choice.

Pakistan’s budget doesn’t allow them to get cutting edge in everything. They have already spent big on Chinese subs, so the rest of the fleet already have much less funding to play around with.

The 054A would already be a quantum leap for the PN compared to what they have now, so would be a great deal. And should be fairly reasonably priced given its big production run.

I think a key point is that Pakistan wants the same weapons and sensors fit as PLAN ships.

That is a big ask for even the 054A, and will never happen with a cutting edge design like the 054B/057 that the PLAN doesn’t even have yet. Especially since the 054B/057 is almost certainly going to have the new UVLC and next gen sensors and other goodies the PLAN would want to keep highly classified.

Although the PN operating 054As with the same sensors and weapons suites would allow seamlessly co-ordination between the two countries.

 

[asif iqbal]

And to follow up it would be first time VLS is coming to PN, I wonder if the the Type 054A will be modified to carry Babur LACM

Because last year Pakistan ministry of defence disclosed Directorate general of munitions was tasked to persue ship borne land attack missile, this is to say shipborne not sub surface from SSK

Can the VLS take a LACM? If not could they tailor it ?

Because we know PN is desperate for LACM launch from air, land and sea

SSK deal of 8 units is likely to fullfill this but even better if the FFG can do it

The other good part of the deal is the Chinese FFG run has gone on for a long time the unit price must be good

Overall this confirms that China is equipping the Pakistan navy from the air, surface and sub surface

JF17 naval, Type 054A and SSK

Even PMSA 4+2 deal is from Chinese

Overall a great package

 

[Lethe]

Hmm, I did expect Pakistan to get the Admiral Groshkov class instead. Seeing as they need to stretch out every dollar they spend on their ships.

Gorshkov is larger and higher-spec than 054A (e.g. radar, gas turbines). Add Russia's lacklustre production circumstances and I wouldn't be surprised if it came in at twice the price of an 054A.

 

[jobjed]

Gorshkov is larger and higher-spec than 054A (e.g. radar, gas turbines). Coupled with Russia's lacklustre production situation and I wouldn't be surprised if it came in at twice the price of an 054A.

It should cost much more than double a 054A considering its full-fledged quad-AESAs, gas turbines, and general cost ineffectiveness of Russian shipbuilding. It's essentially a smaller, less capable, and less mature 052D. If the PN was to go for an Aegis-esque air-defence vessel, the 052D is the most likely choice followed by the Euro-Aegis designs if the US approves Aegis export. The Gorshkovs are a distant choice considering its unproven nature and the issues Russia face with propulsion supply after Ukraine cut off exports of the original gas turbines.

I doubt the PN would even opt for such a vessel, though, considering its limited budget. Second-tier multirole frigates are the only vessels they can afford to procure in decent numbers and the 054A is the best candidate in that regard, followed by the South Korean KDX-IIs, Russian Grigorovichs, and lastly the exorbitant FREMMs.

The 054A is the most logical choice and also possesses significant commonality with the rest of the Pakistani military as their Army already operates the HQ-16 and the F-22Ps are equipped with numerous subsystems also found on the 054A like the YJ-83 launch and targeting suite and CIWS.

 

[timepass]

After reading all above posts regarding the 054As for PN..... I suggests kindly visit Pakistan Military thread (post 720 - 745), where PN plan for future inductions have discussed in details to have a clear view for all above posters.

 

[Rauf]

Advantage for PN would be that as PLN retires the 054As in the future with 054B/057s or any other varient, the PN can pick them up if wanting to increase the numbers.

 

[jobjed]

Advantage for PN would be that as PLN retires the 054As in the future with 054B/057s or any other varient, the PN can pick them up if wanting to increase the numbers.

New PLAN vessels are built to a very high quality commensurate with Chinese advances in shipbuilding. It will take a loooong time for the 054A hulls to deteriorate to a degree where the PLAN feels comfortable retiring them. By then, the 054A will be sorely obsolete and the PN would be better off just asking China to build them brand new 057s/054Bs or allow ToT for Pakistan to build it domestically.