If that's the news, it's not so exciting. It confirms IEP but also disappoints with similar tonnage. In that case I don't see how a 054B could be loading the universal VLS unless it's only 2 modules instead of 4. A "major breakthrough" in ASW compared to the 054A would be 32 universal cells (8 for 32 quad-packed MRSAMs, 8 for ASCMs, and 16 for the winged VL ASW missiles), 2 hangars for 2 ASW helos, new bow sonar, and VDS + TAS. That would make it a truly devastating ASW frigate while retaining full AAW and ASuW capabilities.Some exciting news for future PLAN frigates. Big shrimp fzgfzy decided to elaborate on numerous details about the
Integrating all this information, it seems the new 054B will remain a cost-effective multipurpose surface combatant like the 054A but be much more capable at ASW. It also discredits this weibo source that said the 054B was going to be 6000t.
- Designation-wise, the frigate definitely used to be called 057 but weapon systems ended up being conservative so 054 designation is likely still in use.
- Weapon systems, like previously mentioned, more-or-less unchanged. I'd assume VLS and slant-launchers are still there.
- Propulsion system is definitely IEPS, very advanced. Will also be used on future Chinese surface combatants, unsure if 052E or 055A first.
- Originally, the tonnage was going to be a few hundred tonnes heavier due to new propulsion, however, naval architects supposedly managed to design their way out of this increase.
- The 054B will not have the integrated mast seen at Wuhan testing grounds. Since the mast did get tested, it will eventually end up on a ship but that ship won't be the 054B.
- There is one external feature that he refuses to describe but claims will be very noticeable when we do see it.
- And now, perhaps the most important part of the post; the 054B will have major breakthroughs in ASW capability. For such an important aspect, he doesn't seem to have devoted many characters to this passage.
- Numbers unknown for the time being. It will depend on the PLAN's requirements.
Someone in the cjdby thread asked him if the 054B will resemble the export frigate design and he responded in the affirmative. So, expect the final 054B to have an integrated/semi-integrated mast, but not the lantern one we see at Wuhan.
054/A FFG Thread II
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
But 054A already have a universal VLS ...
He means the much larger universal VLS on the 052D.
I would say though, I think there are some ambiguities.
For example, when weapons systems are "more or less unchanged" does it refer to same main gun, same CIWS, and same VLS in every sense of the word or does it leave open the possibility that say the VLS could be using the new universal VLS.
Similarly, when fzgfzy writes that tonnage was going to be a few hundred tons heavier, is that in reference to 054A (i.e.: that 054B will be the same displacement as 054A), or is it in reference to what 054B's displacement ended up being (i.e.: that 054B's displacement may be different to 054A but they managed to shave a few hundred tons from what it ended up being vs what it was originally was going to be due to design).
I'm also curious as to what the "external feature" that he refuses to describe will be.
In a way, fzgfzy's post leaves us with more questions than answers about the details of 054B's configuration and sensor and weapons outfit, and the most solid takeaway we have is that 054B will definitely have IEPS.
I think the most straightforward interpretation of the displacement comment would be in comparison to the 054A, as in it's similar to the 054A in displacement. Your alternative interpretation would certainly not be the default interpretation of what he said as it requires additional assumptions that are not obvious from a simple statement. I would of course prefer the latter as it would allow this ship to be larger and more versatile but it seems like it is probably not what he meant to say. As for the weapons, "more or less" could mean the addition of an HHQ-10 launcher to the mix. I guess it does leave the possibility of the universal VLS replacing the HHQ-16 VLS; here I think the language is somewhat more ambiguous than the statement about the displacement.
The thing about interpreting big shrimp statements is that unless they're black and white definite yes or no, it is very difficult to judge what the actual meaning for a more ambiguous statement may be, and so I think it makes more sense to interpret ambiguous statements as a "range" of possibilities.
E.g.: for armament, maybe "more or less unchanged" can mean anything from having the exact same weapons suite (from 054A VLS to slant YJ-83 pattern AShMs), up to perhaps having the same weapons arrangement/number however using more modern iterations (like the common VLS and having new slant AShM like YJ-18).
I'd say based off this post there are certain things about 054B that are essentially fixed and precisely defined, like it having IEPS, but certain other things like displacement and armament which are a little more ambiguous.
The "more or less unchanged" statement may allow some wiggle room for the VLS, but your interpretation of the displacement statement is certainly not the straightforward one. MAYBE he meant less-displacement-than-the-greater-displacement-than-the-054A-than-was-originally-thought, but if I have to crane my neck backwards while stuffing my foot in my ear, I'm a pretzel and not a pole.
I think if a new big shrimp statement is coming out that 054B will displace the same as 054A I'd like it to be rather precise rather than ambiguous, as I think it would've been reasonable to expect 054B to displace even a bit more (like a couple hundred tons) over 054A rather than remain the same. Even now, with the latest info, even if 054B is keeping a similar weapons suite to 054A, it sounds like 054B will still have a number of other changes to its sensor suite and perhaps its configuration even beyond its powerplant change as well, all of which which may lend to a different and potentially greater displacement.
So IMO, for "054B displacement = same as 054A displacement" to be the new consensus, I would be interested in a direct statement stating so, rather than saying that they managed to shave off a few hundred tons from its "original" to what it is now.
However, with the information we have as presented, I think it is very reasonable to put the 054B displacement matter as one which remains slightly ambiguous at best.
Just because he is not stating something in the manner in which you prefer doesn't mean he didn't mean the most obvious interpretation of what he said. Also, there was no "shaving off" of any weight, but rather a staving off of increase in weight due to new tech. Does that mean it can't displace "a couple hundred tons" more than the 054A? There is probably that much wiggle room, but that isn't really my point, which is that the obvious interpretation of the statement is that the displacement of the 054A is about the same as that of the 054B. To expect two different frigate designs with different tech to displace EXACTLY the same isn't what anyone would be stupid enough to say, so I assume your "=" sign is not trying to imply this as a claim being made.
I'm not "preferring" anything. But I have read enough big shrimp statements over the years for projects that have come and gone to have a sense for which statements should be interpreted as precise and solid and which should be held off until more precise statements come to light.
Let's put it this way, I would consider 054B displacing at least 200-300 tons more than 054A at full to be a significant enough difference that is beyond "about the same".
If you consider that to be within your "about the same" region, then this probably comes down to our differing interpretation of what "about the same" should be able to reasonably mean for a ship of this size.
But at the end of the day, fzgfzy doesn't say how much 054B will displace nor does he give us a gauge of it indirectly such as by saying how much it may displace relative to 054A (same, more or less), only saying that 054B displaces a few hundred tons less than the "original".
I consider that to be quite vague if our purpose is judging how much 054B may end up displacing.