054/A FFG Thread II

[Jeff Head]

Amazing, and hair raising video of Chinese Naval (PLAN) Ka-28 helicopter landing on a Type 054A frigate in bad weather:

[video=youtube;jFfpeUsXYxc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFfpeUsXYxc[/video]
​

That wss very nearly disasterous...twice. I am sure the pilot and crew were glad to finally be down on the deck of that frigate safe and sound. Also, that is a LOT of deck hands running out there to assist.

 

[Totoro]

052D production is seemingly going into mass production without waiting for a pair. I expect that is the new "normal" for the PLAN -- which is in line with the major shipbuilding programmes of all other navies.

I think PLAN is the only country that had toyed with the "first a pair" BS, and that was only for their DDGs from 052 to 052C, as they were testing the waters for new technologies and their fledging shipbuilding industry

052d cant be regarded as a new ship any more than 054a can. they both had small batches of initial models co e before them. 052d retains the same hull with same propulsion as 052c. thats what makes a new ship. certain superstructure changes are not as important there.

while i cant and wont claim next gen ship will have a prototype version first, i just dont see the evidence suggesting otherwise either. its still in the air. and if 055 will indeed be 12 Thousand ton ship, itd mean something completely new for both the manufacturer and user. even without the elecrtric propulsion itd be a huge generational leap. itd require either double the number of turbines compared with 052, meaning a whole new transmission system, or a whole new larger turbine model. both may indeed warrant a lot of testing.

right now we dont know much and i'd advise against expectations concerning 055 as who knows what will happen in the end. its still all vaporware, until we see an actual photograph. everything concerning 055 has been rumors. unlike say j20 programme which us intelligence officially commented is coming and plaaf official publicly confirmed it and talked about timeframe for it as well as talked about 5s characteristics. thats some actual official circumstantial evidence there. for 055 we have nothing of sort so far. a new capital ship is likely, yes, and its logical next name in line is 055. but thats about it.

 

[Blitzo]

I suppose you are fair in saying 054A and 052D aren't technically new ships, and even 056 is derived off the older pattani OPV.
Maybe 055 will be prototyped, maybe not. The PLANs modern shipbuilding effort has taken place in short duration under such unique circumstances we cannot quite ascertain what is/will be "normal" PLAN shipbuilding cycle.


As for US intelligence reports, I wouldn't put much faith into what we hear publicly.
They missed the development of 052D for the years leading up to its unveiling and were caught surprised by the unveiling of 039A yuan too. If they have any insights into PLAN ship procurement they're definitely not sharing it with us.

Comparisons of 055 with J-20 are interesting. I'd argue we are at pre 2009 J-XX levels of general agreeableness on 055s existence. That is to say, most people are pretty sure it exists and have a rough guide for when it may emerge (~2015 versus 2013-2015) and they hold a rough opinion regarding its final configuration and role (delta canard air superiority fighter powered by 2 WS-15s versus 12,000 ton "large destroyer" powered by 4 QC-280s).
Of course everything changed for J-XX when General heweirong gave that famous CCTV interviewing 2009, 100% confirming 055s existence before it was due to fly. We do not tend to get such juicy tidbits for new naval platforms.

Also, there is no ONI or USNI mention of 055 like there was for "XXJ" but I'd attribute that to the superstar and high profile nature of a stealth fighter programme, and also what I perceive as a general western disparaging opinion of PLANs surface fleet.
Apart from Jeff's website, there are few places on the internet that come close to accurately assessing how far the PLAN have come in recent years, let alone giving accurate threat assessments of various ship types.

 

[Franklin]

It has been very quiet on the Type 054A front. What is happening to 574 Sanya ? Is it close to being commissioned ?

 

[foxmulder]

Amazing, and hair raising video of Chinese Naval (PLAN) Ka-28 helicopter landing on a Type 054A frigate in bad weather:

[video=youtube;jFfpeUsXYxc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFfpeUsXYxc[/video]
​

That wss very nearly disasterous...twice. I am sure the pilot and crew were glad to finally be down on the deck of that frigate safe and sound. Also, that is a LOT of deck hands running out there to assist.

Good video. That was only one aborted approach though.

 

[Jeff Head]

Good video. That was only one aborted approach though.

At 00:09 there is an abort, and then again at 00:19...unless that is a replay for the first one. I do not speak Chinese and so if they indicate that it is a replay, then indeed, it is only once. But two instances are shown on the video.

 

[Blitzo]

At 00:09 there is an abort, and then again at 00:19...unless that is a replay for the first one. I do not speak Chinese and so if they indicate that it is a replay, then indeed, it is only once. But two instances are shown on the video.

It is a replay.

The first play of that scene is just a showing of the event, the second play/replay is showing the scene again with voiceover and no sound of the actual helicopter/ATC radio.
Another way to check is the timestamp

 

[plawolf]

At 00:09 there is an abort, and then again at 00:19...unless that is a replay for the first one. I do not speak Chinese and so if they indicate that it is a replay, then indeed, it is only once. But two instances are shown on the video.

Look at the clock on the bottom right hand side of the video. The second was just a partial rerun of the earlier aborted attempt.

The commentator did say that the helicopter had to make repeated attempts before it was able to land, but I guess none of the other aborts were as dramatic so they opted to show a repeat rather than one of the other attempts.

 

[plawolf]

Damn, ninga'd by Bltizo.

 

[adeptitus]

(From the 052 thread)

Nothing but speculation and personal opinion aside from the engine Pielstick there is no proof whatsoever french ever sold subsystem to China recently. All these westerner cannot reconcile the fact that China is now independence in naval warfare
Back in 8o France sold Tavitac command and control center and DUBV 23 sonar system and 57 mm naval gun for Luda improvement. But that was years ago and the system must be outdated by now. The Chinese could improve and those system it becomes indigenous technology

As andyhugfan has already stated, the discussion is on the original 054 frigate, which is equipped with many French origin hardware.

Some of the French imports over the years include:

100mm naval gun (Type 210)
Modular Naval Crotale (HHQ-7)
Castor IIJ (or 2B?) Fire Control Radar (Type 345)
Thomson-CSF TSR 3004 Sea Tiger Radar (Type 363S)
Thomson-CSF TAVITAC (ZKJ-4)
Sintra-Alcatel DUBV-23 hull mounted sonar & DUBV-43 towed sonar (SJD-7 or SJD-9?)
Aérospatiale AS365 & AS565 (Z-9)
Aérospatiale SA-321 Super Frelon (Z-8)

There is very little speculation on the origin of these systems. What would be speculative is the degree of influence that Thomspon-CSF Satan 30mm CIWS or SAGEM VOLCAN system had on the development of the Type 730 CIWS (H/PJ12).

At what point does a "Chinese improved" version of the hardware become more indigenous than import? IMO the Z-9 is still "French" versus the WZ-19 crossed the line to become "Chinese". Your opinion may vary.

As for recent French naval system exports to China, due to the arms embargo this is mostly restricted to dual-use & non-lethal systems, such as the helicopter handling system from DCNS:

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