i think hp is buy building cutters these days. They have a lot of those orders. If I were PLAN, I'd stop at 18 (5 flotilla including the 054) and start building 054B.
054/A FFG Thread II
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
franco-russe
Senior Member
And that is probably also what PLAN is doing. Hulls 17 and 18 are needed to complete 6 Destroyer Flotilla at Dinghai.
Well, with those portions of the vessels in the yards, we will soon know what they intend.
If they are ready to go wiyth the 054B design, now would be an opportune time to introduce them into the build queu.
Say a build of twelve 054Bs to add to the 18 054As would make thirty very modern and very capable frigates for the PLAN fleet. Add to that the scores of 056s, and then, of course the six 052Cs and 8-12 O54Ds, (not to mention the SSNs, replensihment vessels, LPDs, the carrier, etc) and the PLAN will have transformed itself into a very capable and very modern fleet with strong blue water capabilities.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
A good point, the next units are just modules we have no idea if they are indeed Type 054B we can't actually tell just yet, we might get a repeat of the Type 052C/D transition
And would be perfect sense to build 18 units and the switch to Type 054B, I would expect the new FFG to have better stealth, newer VLS, ability to clear mines, better ASW etc
I hope we see it soon
escobar
Brigadier
Type 054A CIC...
steve_rolfe
Junior Member
Very impressive pictures..............liked the fact that there was a video screen in there with split images of different outside images of the ship.........allows operator to see whats going on outside their room.
Though to date the best organised, ergonomically arranged systems control room i've seen has to be on board a RN Type 45 Destroyer.
Though to date the best organised, ergonomically arranged systems control room i've seen has to be on board a RN Type 45 Destroyer.
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plawolf
Lieutenant General
Do you have any pictures for comparison sake?
I like the 054A CIC generally, and it seems like the PLA has a standardised control station for their ships, UAVs and AWACS.
The only thing I don't like is how dark the CIC is, that's not going to be good for the eyes. Would a little more and better lighting have been too much to ask for?
Actually if anything the CIC looks overlit in the video, most probably so as to give the tv crew an easier time.
Most CICs are very dark, with little to no ambient light so as to prevent eye strain. In taht regard, I think the PLAN's combat vessels do well in and are in line with the international norm.
Something I'm not as keen on is the relatively small size (052C appears to have a similarly sized CIC), the very utilitarian appearance (that may be aesthetics more than ergonomics, but I can't imagine the exposed cables and fire extinguishers in such a cramped work space with so many hard edges would be beneficial to the crew's survivability if hit), and their individual workstations are undeniably a few years behind world leaders.
Some more recent Euro designs like FREMM AND Type 45 do offer some more most visually appealling and advanced looking CIC's
I do wonder how some of the more recent Burkes stack up -- they're obviously not using cold war era CRTs. For a frigate, a more average CIC would be acceptable. Limitations of space and perhaps more significantly, cost would have prohibited a more comprehensive design. But I hope PLAN have learned from the first two 052Cs and pioneered some more capable CICs in their new production 052C/Ds. Despite the counter argument that looks do not determine how well a product actually performs, the fact that all modern CICs are gravitating towards various common features makes me think that form follows function.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Actually if anything the CIC looks overlit in the video, most probably so as to give the tv crew an easier time.
Most CICs are very dark, with little to no ambient light so as to prevent eye strain. In taht regard, I think the PLAN's combat vessels do well in and are in line with the international norm.
Something I'm not as keen on is the relatively small size (052C appears to have a similarly sized CIC), the very utilitarian appearance (that may be aesthetics more than ergonomics, but I can't imagine the exposed cables and fire extinguishers in such a cramped work space with so many hard edges would be beneficial to the crew's survivability if hit), and their individual workstations are undeniably a few years behind world leaders.
Some more recent Euro designs like FREMM AND Type 45 do offer some more most visually appealling and advanced looking CIC's
I do wonder how some of the more recent Burkes stack up -- they're obviously not using cold war era CRTs. For a frigate, a more average CIC would be acceptable. Limitations of space and perhaps more significantly, cost would have prohibited a more comprehensive design. But I hope PLAN have learned from the first two 052Cs and pioneered some more capable CICs in their new production 052C/Ds. Despite the counter argument that looks do not determine how well a product actually performs, the fact that all modern CICs are gravitating towards various common features makes me think that form follows function.
Poor ambient light does not prevent eye strain, it causes it. That is why you should always use computers in a well lit environment (obviously within limits, too much ambient light is also bad for the eyes). Just look at those pictures you posted and you can see a noticeable difference in general brightness levels between them and the 054A CIC.
The light levels are also much more constant and brighter in those CICs in your pictures, whereas you have varying light levels for the 054A, which is not good for the eyes.
I think the old dark CICs are a very dated idea, and as we learnt more about ergonomics and eye protection as well as with the introduction of brightly backlit MFD screens, those ideas became increasingly obsolete and even counter productive.
As for the workstations, well sure it is nifty having all those screens, but does everyone really need them all? Fair enough if you have a small crew and need everyone to multitask, but looking at the number of work stations in those pictures, you would think they have enough guys in there to have everyone focus and specialise on a specific task/function and still have people spare for redundancies in key positions.
When I look at those three MFD layouts, I cannot help but be reminded of city traders. They need those three screens because they have to keep track of lots of different markets and indexes and news sites and quickly cross compare between them all the time as well as email and write memos in between. I just cannot see why an operator in the CIC would need to do anything like that, we all only have one pair of eyes with limited field of view which narrows significantly when we are focused on something. When you are working hard, you only really focus on a small part of your average screen for example, with the rest only in your peripheral vision. For many of the roles in the CIC, too much information can be a needless distraction instead of a boon.
You also need to remember that most western militarise cooperate closely and often use the same suppliers, so it would only be natural for them to all gravitate towards certain commonality in their designs and layouts, but that does not necessarily mean they are all converging on the best solution.
shen
Senior Member
A late model Burke for comparison.
The Type 45 CIC has, I don't know, too much of a COTS feel. probably easier to upgrade and reconfigure the controls.
Remember 054 is a much smaller ship compare to Type 45 or Burke, with a correspondingly smaller CIC.