054/A FFG Thread II

[adeptitus]

The MK 41 VLS offers better flexibility and choice of munitions. SM, Tomahawk (unlikely), VL-ASROC, RIM-7, RIM-1662 (ESSM). Although western armaments tend to be expensive, the Koreans are known to be willing to make a deal (see: barter w/Indonesia).

 

[Jeff Head]

Apparently, it only has 8 VLS cells, not 24 or 32. That is a major disadvantage compared to the 32 cells of the Type 054A. Some advantages I see is the APARs and the integrated mast which will be more stealthy than the semi-stealthy mast of the Type 054A.

Correct, I found a more detailed listing so its weapons load out is:

A forward 76mm main gun, forward 8 Mk-41 VLS with 32 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missles, 8 cannister SSMs (Harpoons or equivalent), aft 20mm Phalanx CIWS, two aft 30mm auto-cannons, mid-size helo pad and hanger.

I do not believe that 32 ESSMs with its APARs gives away anything in air defense to the Type 054A.

Anyhow, it's a decent multi-role frigate and will probably be relatively cheap compared to the FREMM or anything similar. Good move by the Thais.

 

[shen]

Is there a Western equivalent of the Band Stand? or a combination of sensors that allows ship to do OTH targeting of SSM? if not, how arethe small navies that doesn't have USN's MPA and AWACS support suppose to us their Harpoons beyond horizon range?

 

[shen]

Correct, I found a more detailed listing so its weapons load out is:

A forward 76mm main gun, forward 8 Mk-41 VLS with 32 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missles, 8 cannister SSMs (Harpoons or equivalent), aft 20mm Phalanx CIWS, two aft 30mm auto-cannons, mid-size helo pad and hanger.

I do not believe that 32 ESSMs with its APARs gives away anything in air defense to the Type 054A.

Anyhow, it's a decent multi-role frigate and will probably be relatively cheap compared to the FREMM or anything similar. Good move by the Thais.

If they get everything integrated correctly, and that's a big if (I-Mast is a new system, probably not even ESSM integrated yet at the moment), I don't see why it shouldn't be better than any FREMM variant. ESSM is really the killer app in the US catalog, much more space efficient than Aster-15 and probably a deal cheaper. The frigate (if everything work out) is going to have X and S band fixed active array radars vs rotating S band only EMPAR on Italian FREMM and low mounted rotating S-Band only Herakles on French FREMM and low mounted SPY-1 on Spanish F100. Plus everything is neatly integrated in one mast to minimize EM interference. Leave it to the Dutch to come up with the most elegant solution.

PLAN need to catch up with 054B, get a dual band AESA into that integrated mast. JMSDF already have two Akizuki class in service with dual band AESA.

 

[jobjed]

Correct, I found a more detailed listing so its weapons load out is:

A forward 76mm main gun, forward 8 Mk-41 VLS with 32 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missles, 8 cannister SSMs (Harpoons or equivalent), aft 20mm Phalanx CIWS, two aft 30mm auto-cannons, mid-size helo pad and hanger.

I do not believe that 32 ESSMs with its APARs gives away anything in air defense to the Type 054A.

Anyhow, it's a decent multi-role frigate and will probably be relatively cheap compared to the FREMM or anything similar. Good move by the Thais.

Yup, with quad-packing, the prowess of the frigate increases immensely. The only disadvantage I see now is the single Phalanx, compared to the duo-Type 730 on the Type 054A; not a very big deal but still, worth mentioning.

I have to say this frigate would incorporate more modern equipment if done according to plan. I'm still concerned with its lack of bow sonar though, it would really hinder its ASW capabilities.

 

[MwRYum]

Here's what that Frigate, called the DW 3000H Stealth Frigate, looks like:

​

A forward 76mm main gun, forward 8 Mk-41 VLS with 32 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missles, 8 cannister SSMs (Harpoon or equivalent), aft 20mm Phalanx CIWS, two aft 30mm auto-cannons, mid-size helo pad and hanger. Very similar lay-out and configuration to Type 054A, but a western design and more modern stealth features. Apparently they will build two of them.

With such a "clean" design the 054A seems so yesterday...thing is such design features isn't that out of reach to Chinese shipbuilding, but why it still not incorporated in the new designs?

 

[Jeff Head]

Is there a Western equivalent of the Band Stand? or a combination of sensors that allows ship to do OTH targeting of SSM? if not, how arethe small navies that doesn't have USN's MPA and AWACS support suppose to us their Harpoons beyond horizon range?

1st...that frigate carries a helo, and you can bet that it has sensors that can give targeting information to the vessel, and/or the missiles.

2nd, if they are part of a treaty with the US and its allies, they can receive information from them.

3rd, Thailand itself has other MPA assets it could use if necessary.

 

[joshuatree]

With such a "clean" design the 054A seems so yesterday...thing is such design features isn't that out of reach of Chinese shipbuilding, but why it still not incorporated in the new designs?

Well that's the nature of competition, someone's gonna produce a newer design that may or may not be better. Type 054A is not that much different in hull design with the type 054. So overall, this design is a decade old now. When a type 054B rolls out, you can be sure it's gonna advance the current design to incorporate the latest developments. Now that there's about 20 units produced (054+054A), the ROI in R&D most likely has been reached so it will be interesting to see what happens next. More type 054As built, a newer version, or simply a lull in frigate production to focus on other classes needed within the navy.

 

[luhai]

With such a "clean" design the 054A seems so yesterday...thing is such design features isn't that out of reach of Chinese shipbuilding, but why it still not incorporated in the new designs?

Aside from the integrated mast(Which china developing and it's gonna be expensive) , I really don't see any dramatic difference. It looks more like Thailand is given a choice of having cleaner ships and better sensor or having a busier ship with heavier armaments and chose the former.

Korean Light Frigate

Chinese Light Frigate 1

Chinese Light Frigate 2

Type 054A

Interestingly, Korea's own newly commissioned Incheon Class Frigate uses a far more conservative layout.

 

[MwRYum]

Aside from the integrated mast(Which china developing and it's gonna be expensive) , I really don't see any dramatic difference. It looks more like Thailand is given a choice of having cleaner ships and better sensor or having a busier ship with heavier armaments and chose the former.

Korean Light Frigate

Chinese Light Frigate 1

Chinese Light Frigate 2

Type 054A

What I said mostly translated in the bow design, the "cleaner" design have all the machinery usually on the bow deck tucked away / covered, thus help to reduce the RCS. Such feature is pretty old by now, the La Fayette class FFG design introduced it back in last in the 1990s. That said, the 054/054A is kinda stuck in a strange timewarp between the eras of Oliver Hazard Perry Class FFG and La Fayette Class FFG.

Interestingly, Korea's own newly commissioned Incheon Class Frigate uses a far more conservative layout.

The Incheon Class FFG shares a similar niche with the Chinese 056 class corvettes, alas bigger (just enough to be classified as frigate), and its primary adversary is the puny DPRK navy, its design arsenal is more than adequate to handle the job, thus can afford a more conventional design to save cost.