054/A FFG Thread II

kw64

Junior Member
Re: The Third Huangpu 054A Is Ready!

Perhaps serial production will begin. I expect the PLAN to acquire at least another 12 of these very capable frigates.

I respectfully disagree, personally I think the current model of 054A is close to its end of serial production, and they would start a new class soon. PLAN seems to stick to its policy of producing small quantities of ships for each class in order to modernize more rapidly. I doubt any of their current classes of major surface warships will be produced on a large scale.
 

tphuang

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Re: The Third Huangpu 054A Is Ready!

I respectfully disagree, personally I think the current model of 054A is close to its end of serial production, and they would start a new class soon. PLAN seems to stick to its policy of producing small quantities of ships for each class in order to modernize more rapidly. I doubt any of their current classes of major surface warships will be produced on a large scale.
well, they already produced 4 and producing 2 right now, probably 2 more after this. They just need to produce 4 to reach 12. It really depends what you would define as large modification that would constitute a different class.
 

Jeff Head

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Re: The Third Huangpu 054A Is Ready!

I respectfully disagree, personally I think the current model of 054A is close to its end of serial production, and they would start a new class soon. PLAN seems to stick to its policy of producing small quantities of ships for each class in order to modernize more rapidly. I doubt any of their current classes of major surface warships will be produced on a large scale.
At some point, they have to decide to actually deploy and protect their growing maritime interests on a long term basis.

They pay a high cost in logistics and maintenance maintaining so many diffrent classes, and when the time comes for actually using them regularly to protect their interests, such a course of many, many different classes is likely not sustainable.

I believe that with the 054As that the PLAN is approaching parity with most modern navies in FFG design. They have things to learn and employ in terms of sonar and their verticle launch systems, etc. but those can be added to this platform as they develop them I believe.

It just matters on when they feel they have reached a point where they are ready to start actually deploying. The Somali pirate issue may have given them the opportunity.

We shall see. If they want to keep on in a rapid technologcxal development role...then you are most probably right. If they are ready to start more thorough deployments to protect their interests in a long term sustainable way, they will slow down and use a more normal development cycle that fits into that type of use of their assets.
 

crobato

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Re: The Third Huangpu 054A Is Ready!

I respectfully disagree, personally I think the current model of 054A is close to its end of serial production, and they would start a new class soon. PLAN seems to stick to its policy of producing small quantities of ships for each class in order to modernize more rapidly. I doubt any of their current classes of major surface warships will be produced on a large scale.

I would go with Jeff on this. The PLAN has two patterns for its ships. Either you have a limited one or pair of ships used to test the waters, or it would go into the other extreme and mass produce that design if it felt like that design hit a home run.

The 052B, 052C, 051B and the original 054 can be said to be "test the water" designs.

On the other hand, ships like the 022, and even the 039 Song submarine can be described as "home runs". Thus they are mass produced in full confidence. I feel that the 054A belongs to this group. There will certainly be more to come.
 

jackbh

Junior Member
So far they are only producing smaller ships in masses. I wonder when they will start to mass produce the destroyers or even some cruisers. With small ships like the 022 and Songs how can they consider themselves to be a blue water navy. Even with the 054A, it doesn't really have enough size or even weapons to be considered blue navy.

Is it possible to send the 054A on a mission to somalia when they rotate ships?
 

tphuang

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So far they are only producing smaller ships in masses. I wonder when they will start to mass produce the destroyers or even some cruisers. With small ships like the 022 and Songs how can they consider themselves to be a blue water navy. Even with the 054A, it doesn't really have enough size or even weapons to be considered blue navy.

Is it possible to send the 054A on a mission to somalia when they rotate ships?

I think 054A is still a little green. They might still be working on the kinks of the ship. 052B/C are relatively mature by now, so they are comfortable with sending these ships out for 3 months deployments.
 

crobato

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Jack, the 054A can be considered a fairly large ship. Its certainly bigger than the Ludas and about the same or bigger than the Luhus. At 4000-5000mt, its comparable among some of the larger frigates around the world used by so called blue water navies. Mounting 8 AshMs, a 32 cel VLS system, with two CIWS guns, that's packing as much as the best frigates in the world. The idea that the Jiangkai is just a Jianghu or Jiangwei replacement is quite an understatement.

The Song, from a Google Earth measurement, approximates a length of around 75 meters. That's longer than most modern SSKs, like the Kilo, which is around 66m. For an SSK, the Song is hardly small.
 

jackbh

Junior Member
Some how PLA likes the 054A more than the 052B or the 052C by building more ships. Even though it's a fairly big frigate like Corbato says it is still smaller compare to the destroyers the other navy in Asia has. Korea, Japan and Russia all have ships much bigger and maybe even the Indians. I have read articles that said China has the lowest average weight of ships comparing to the other major navies. I think the reason causing this is that China's majority of surface ships are made up of older frigates built earlier in the last century, so by building the more modern 054A frigate will help towards solving this problem.

But by not building more 052B and 052C shows that China either has better plans for better ships or that these 2 classes are still not enough to satisfy what the Chinese navy wants.
 

crobato

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Some how PLA likes the 054A more than the 052B or the 052C by building more ships. Even though it's a fairly big frigate like Corbato says it is still smaller compare to the destroyers the other navy in Asia has. Korea, Japan and Russia all have ships much bigger and maybe even the Indians. I have read articles that said China has the lowest average weight of ships comparing to the other major navies. I think the reason causing this is that China's majority of surface ships are made up of older frigates built earlier in the last century, so by building the more modern 054A frigate will help towards solving this problem.

But by not building more 052B and 052C shows that China either has better plans for better ships or that these 2 classes are still not enough to satisfy what the Chinese navy wants.

054A is as big or bigger than most frigates other countries have. Its almost practically a destroyer. Only certain frigates from Europe displace more weight, and these ships are questionably "frigates".

I don't think 052B and 052C has fully satisfied the PLAN for one reason or another, for reasons I suspect like cost, need for a standardized VLS and SAM. There is still room for a new class of destroyer that learns from the lesson of the last three destroyer classes.

Also the PLAN has more ships, larger ships, more modern ships, for replenishment than some so called "blue water" navies around. The ability and the backbone for mid seas replenishment is one of the defining features of a blue water navy.
 

Gollevainen

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Well actually 054/A is no way remarkably more heavier or larger than any counterpory frigates. It is big frigate, well over 3,000 tons displacement, but those 4,000-5,000 ton numbers are hugely over-estimations. Lenghtwisely the ships are about 125-130 meters which alse correspond other frigates around the world.

My somewhat stubborn yet edjucated quess/assumption/analyze has been that the main reason for chinese DDG development being what it is is the proplems and/or delays to provide proper gasturbine propulsion for the destroyers. The overall development of PLAN surface fleet during the late 90's and whole this decade speaks in favour of that intruperation and 054A is aligned to it. Where as othervice the 054A is near the levels of corresponding modern frigates around the world, it's propulsion solution, diesels is more paralel to seccond-rate patrol frigates in west. Chinese knows how to make marine diesels and thus the need for modern surface combatants is fullfilled with design which can be produced in larger numbers but still being othervice up-to-date in its capabilities.

Ofcourse the DDG development delay has other factors as well aside the propulsion arragments, but IMO that is the biggest single factor in it.
 
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