054/A FFG Thread II

[franco-russe]

Re: 54A+ Frigates?

Thinking is that Type 054A+ has a different, more raked bow than straight 054A. This started with Hull 5 YUNCHENG 571. It is noteworthy that there was a 2-year interlude between Hulls 3/4 and 5/6, which is best explained by the design being reworked.

I think you will find a good analysis of this if you search long enough way back in the 054 thread.

 

[Mysterre]

Pretty sure this island dispute with Philippine, Vietnam and Japan just increased that finite budget towards the infinite direction. I won't be surprised if they really increase the production to a new levels in the next few years.

I doubt the Phillipines situation kicked up any real fuss in the PLAN upper echelons besides confirming what they already know: get those 056's cranked out. Those ships are a perfect mild escalation of posture without getting the other guy to cry foul if a larger capital ship were to be dispatched to the area of conflict, while simultaneously showing enough teeth to not be significantly outmatched by anything the Phillipine navy could put out.

Speaking of which, the PLAN should sell those 054's along with the JWI's and II's or just retire them. As I mentioned before, even the air defense suite on the little 056 now outmatches the craptastic HHQ-7's on these platforms. They also seem to no longer fit the PLAN's intended role for their FFG's (if the 054A is a good measure of this role), that of medium range air defense and to a lesser degree, ASW and ASuW. IMO they should even sell off or retire every DDG up to and including the Luhu and Luhai class ships in the next several years as more 052C's (and 052D's?) arrive. By 2020 the PLAN would have an entirely modern navy consisting of 056 corvettes, 054A and 054B FFG's, and 052C and 052D DDG's. This would smooth out logistics and maintenance quite a bit. Meanwhile those blundering 051C's and 052B's can defend the home turf by sitting in Bohai Bay fulltime.

 

[MwRYum]

I doubt the Phillipines situation kicked up any real fuss in the PLAN upper echelons besides confirming what they already know: get those 056's cranked out. Those ships are a perfect mild escalation of posture without getting the other guy to cry foul if a larger capital ship were to be dispatched to the area of conflict, while simultaneously showing enough teeth to not be significantly outmatched by anything the Phillipine navy could put out.

Speaking of which, the PLAN should sell those 054's along with the JWI's and II's or just retire them. As I mentioned before, even the air defense suite on the little 056 now outmatches the craptastic HHQ-7's on these platforms. They also seem to no longer fit the PLAN's intended role for their FFG's (if the 054A is a good measure of this role), that of medium range air defense and to a lesser degree, ASW and ASuW. IMO they should even sell off or retire every DDG up to and including the Luhu and Luhai class ships in the next several years as more 052C's (and 052D's?) arrive. By 2020 the PLAN would have an entirely modern navy consisting of 056 corvettes, 054A and 054B FFG's, and 052C and 052D DDG's. This would smooth out logistics and maintenance quite a bit. Meanwhile those blundering 051C's and 052B's can defend the home turf by sitting in Bohai Bay fulltime.

Certainly the 056 would be more suited to operate in the disputed waters where the depth is pretty shallow even for the 054A, and in terms of firepower should outmatch whatever Philippines can put to the sea on their own, but to operate this far flying the navy colors means things escalate to the point of shooting war between the two countries already, yet in terms of air cover PLAN / PLAAF doesn't have the reach with their land-based assets, and carrier air group is still a decade away from become a reality...

As for 056 replace the 053 series and other smaller boats, that'll be just a matter of time, but as you should know real world ain't like video games, just swath out the old with the new and everything in place - the number and personnel involved will translate into at least half a decade of work, begin with prepping a SOP manual of the 056 based on real operational experiences; then train the new sailors and some of them old dog new tricks (automation and tempo on the 056 will be totally different from the outdated 053s).

And in terms of easing on logistics, the SSF benefited from being the worst equipped fleet back in the day, so they're essentially the first to be standardized; the NSF is the most mixed bag of all three but that couldn't be helped, being "in a way" blockaded inside the Bohai yet shoulders the heaviest burden of all - capital defense.

 

[Mysterre]

Certainly the 056 would be more suited to operate in the disputed waters where the depth is pretty shallow even for the 054A, and in terms of firepower should outmatch whatever Philippines can put to the sea on their own, but to operate this far flying the navy colors means things escalate to the point of shooting war between the two countries already, yet in terms of air cover PLAN / PLAAF doesn't have the reach with their land-based assets, and carrier air group is still a decade away from become a reality...

Read that article posted by manilaboy. Jianghus, which are about the same size and roughly similarly armed, have already been involved in this dispute.

As for 056 replace the 053 series and other smaller boats, that'll be just a matter of time, but as you should know real world ain't like video games, just swath out the old with the new and everything in place - the number and personnel involved will translate into at least half a decade of work, begin with prepping a SOP manual of the 056 based on real operational experiences; then train the new sailors and some of them old dog new tricks (automation and tempo on the 056 will be totally different from the outdated 053s).

And yet the PLAN has been pumping out 056's, 054A's, and 052C's like no tomorrow. Clearly they wouldn't build them if they couldn't crew them.

And in terms of easing on logistics, the SSF benefited from being the worst equipped fleet back in the day, so they're essentially the first to be standardized; the NSF is the most mixed bag of all three but that couldn't be helped, being "in a way" blockaded inside the Bohai yet shoulders the heaviest burden of all - capital defense.

Ships can be moved around and reassigned to different fleets easily, so the pace of buildup of each fleet is IMO more a reflection of the importance the PLAN leadership attaches to them than anything else. NSF's role is defense of the Beijing military region, Bohai Bay, and the Yellow Sea. Despite its seeming importance in having to defend the capital and surrounding waters, it's probably the least important of the three fleets and I predict will be the recipient of the leftovers from the other fleets. ESF's role is Taiwan and the East China Sea, including potential conflicts with Japan, while the SSF is the South China Sea. These two fleets are IMO going to get the lion's share of new ships and will get them first, their ability to move back and forth between different fleets/task forces notwithstanding.

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: 54A+ Frigates?

What's the deal with 54A+ Frigate? How is it different than the 54A's?

SD already has a thread about all things associated with the Type 054 frigates. Here:

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/054-series-frigate-thread-2-a-4149.html

You should probably simply post this simple question there. My guess is that the mods will move it there in any case.

As far as I can see, there is no Type 054A+ FFG yet. They all seem to be built to the same spec.

 

[bd popeye]

Threads merged. No need for two 054 threads.

Blackstone next time check to see if there is a similar or duplicate thread before you open a new thread. I suggest you read the forum rules. Read the entire thread.

[h=3]FORUM RULES: Things to Remember Before Posting, important, please read![/h]
bd popeye super moderator

 

[Franklin]

Speaking of which, the PLAN should sell those 054's along with the JWI's and II's or just retire them. As I mentioned before, even the air defense suite on the little 056 now outmatches the craptastic HHQ-7's on these platforms. They also seem to no longer fit the PLAN's intended role for their FFG's (if the 054A is a good measure of this role), that of medium range air defense and to a lesser degree, ASW and ASuW. IMO they should even sell off or retire every DDG up to and including the Luhu and Luhai class ships in the next several years as more 052C's (and 052D's?) arrive. By 2020 the PLAN would have an entirely modern navy consisting of 056 corvettes, 054A and 054B FFG's, and 052C and 052D DDG's. This would smooth out logistics and maintenance quite a bit. Meanwhile those blundering 051C's and 052B's can defend the home turf by sitting in Bohai Bay fulltime.

Before they start retiring any of the 2 Type 054's and the 14 Type 053 Jiangwei's they may want to retire the 21 Type 053 Jianghu's and the 11 Type 051 Luda's first.

 

[asif iqbal]

I do not know why people are talking about retiring the 2 x Type 054s, they are part of the eventual 5 flotillas PLAN will operate of 20 frigates, they are modern ocean going vessels and a great asset to China also they are new when compared to other already serving frigates

In addition there is no evidence of a Type 054B

 

[stardave]

Certainly the 056 would be more suited to operate in the disputed waters where the depth is pretty shallow even for the 054A, and in terms of firepower should outmatch whatever Philippines can put to the sea on their own, but to operate this far flying the navy colors means things escalate to the point of shooting war between the two countries already, yet in terms of air cover PLAN / PLAAF doesn't have the reach with their land-based assets, and carrier air group is still a decade away from become a reality...

As for 056 replace the 053 series and other smaller boats, that'll be just a matter of time, but as you should know real world ain't like video games, just swath out the old with the new and everything in place - the number and personnel involved will translate into at least half a decade of work, begin with prepping a SOP manual of the 056 based on real operational experiences; then train the new sailors and some of them old dog new tricks (automation and tempo on the 056 will be totally different from the outdated 053s).

And in terms of easing on logistics, the SSF benefited from being the worst equipped fleet back in the day, so they're essentially the first to be standardized; the NSF is the most mixed bag of all three but that couldn't be helped, being "in a way" blockaded inside the Bohai yet shoulders the heaviest burden of all - capital defense.

I am pretty sure the current PLAN fleet with the old fleets is more than enough to take care Philippine and Vietnam if the shooting war starts. The real challenge China face is Japan, that's why are they cranking out those 054A and 052C like there is no tomorrow.

 

[joshuatree]

I doubt the Phillipines situation kicked up any real fuss in the PLAN upper echelons besides confirming what they already know: get those 056's cranked out. Those ships are a perfect mild escalation of posture without getting the other guy to cry foul if a larger capital ship were to be dispatched to the area of conflict, while simultaneously showing enough teeth to not be significantly outmatched by anything the Phillipine navy could put out.

I think the PI/VN situations kicked up more administrative fuss rather than hardware fuss. What probably is being discussed is the need to merge the 5 different maritime agencies into 1 or at least have a coordinated and centralized command to not have a scenario where the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. If this is not being discussed, it absolutely should.

Meanwhile those blundering 051C's and 052B's can defend the home turf by sitting in Bohai Bay fulltime.

Including the Sovs right?