052C/052D Class Destroyers

ismellcopium said:

Surely there have been precise measurements of the dimensions of 346, A & B after all these years. Anyone have an image?

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You can try Google earth tho at Yulin naval base. resolution is rather poor and there are image squeezed that could bias the measurement. For type 55 and 52, you may get 4.2-5.2 m panel size. This is kinda make things bit complicated. There is of course magazine scans provided generously here but still given the array is tilted it's kinda bit difficult to measure things.

sequ said:

Mk1 eyeball tells me so.

I really don't see the 346B being 40% larger than the 346A. 40% larger than the 346? Sure.

Compare pics between 052D and 055 and bear in mind the difference in beam is just 2 meters. They come out the same size.

I believe the major difference between the 3 variants are the following:

346: Early gen AESA
346A: Larger array 5x5m, better modules (still) GaAs
346B: Same size but newer and more powerful modules based on GaN

Click to expand...

My lowest estimate tho.. 346 and 346A are same aperture size in total. Except 346 have somehow larger TRM size due to cooling fins for air cooling. The 346A can get more space with elimination of cooling fins due to switch to liquid cooling thus more compact and allow better utilization of the space. While the B one could be larger overall as larger and newer ship.

Just comparing the ship's beam tho is not really good indicator.

sequ said:

I believe the major difference between the 3 variants are the following:

346: Early gen AESA
346A: Larger array 5x5m, better modules (still) GaAs
346B: Same size but newer and more powerful modules based on GaN

Click to expand...

The 346B using GaN would make sense given the Type-055 reportedly has 30MW of electrical power, which should be way more than the Type-052D.

For reference, the Arleigh Burke destroyers started out with 9MW, but the latest ones under construction have 12MW

Stealthflanker said:

My lowest estimate tho.. 346 and 346A are same aperture size in total. Except 346 have somehow larger TRM size due to cooling fins for air cooling. The 346A can get more space with elimination of cooling fins due to switch to liquid cooling thus more compact and allow better utilization of the space. While the B one could be larger overall as larger and newer ship.

Just comparing the ship's beam tho is not really good indicator.

Click to expand...

What I think the 346B is capable of:

sequ said:

ALP 500-G is going to have ~ 6912 TRM, assuming each door (36x) has 2 horizontal TRM blocks and 3 vertically stacked ones each containing the standard 32 TRM as on the STR 700-G, ALP 100-G and ALP 300-G.

View attachment 141372

At 3000 MHz/150khz PRF at 5.7w per module it is reaching the quoted (restricted) range of 750km vs 1m2 target at 50% Pd.

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They are both 5*5 meter arrays with ~7000TRM and GaN based. TF2000 is going to have the navalized version of the ALP500-G.

sequ said:

I believe the major difference between the 3 variants are the following:

346: Early gen AESA
346A: Larger array 5x5m, better modules (still) GaAs
346B: Same size but newer and more powerful modules based on GaN

Click to expand...

The first 055 was built in 2014. I would be absolutely shocked if the 346B incorporated GaN back then. I can imagine a 055A design, perhaps with IEP (and maybe a couple GTs less but uprated), using GaN MMICs in a new "346C" iteration, but certainly not the current version. Perhaps #17 onwards, for example if they built out 16 055s and 16 055As, or something like that.

So i make a "QuickGuide" for Type 346. Covering some basic stuff.



obviously can subject to change as more information become available. Range estimates are based on available literature on 346. Then scaled up according to the TRM counts using 4th root laws. The type 346B seems to be indeed further enlarged Type 346A, based on Acta Electronica Sinica paper "阵列天线电磁-结构-热耦合理论：现在与未来" You people can download for free here :

So i think 40% larger aperture compared to 346A is true and 7980 TRM is realistic.

Kinda wonder tho that one person in twitterland actually tried to argue about range of the 346 using that paper despite it described Type 346 and the US AEGIS in separate manner. Dude also even argue the paper was taken down which clearly isnt the case here.

Stealthflanker said:

So i make a "QuickGuide" for Type 346. Covering some basic stuff.

View attachment 143474

obviously can subject to change as more information become available. Range estimates are based on available literature on 346. Then scaled up according to the TRM counts using 4th root laws. The type 346B seems to be indeed further enlarged Type 346A, based on Acta Electronica Sinica paper "阵列天线电磁-结构-热耦合理论：现在与未来" You people can download for free here :

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So i think 40% larger aperture compared to 346A is true and 7980 TRM is realistic.

Kinda wonder tho that one person in twitterland actually tried to argue about range of the 346 using that paper despite it described Type 346 and the US AEGIS in separate manner. Dude also even argue the paper was taken down which clearly isnt the case here.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I saw the discussion thread. It is infuriating that his followers called you a slur just because you're from SEA...

It should be known that these type of assholes are very selective of what they want to claim. They'll say papers from CN are fake data and then another CN paper to be true because it is favourable to them.

Type 003 also has 346B,I believe

A 052DG sailing likely somewhere north. Posted bt @这丫头有点风 on Weibo.

Stealthflanker said:

Kinda wonder tho that one person in twitterland actually tried to argue about range of the 346 using that paper despite it described Type 346 and the US AEGIS in separate manner. Dude also even argue the paper was taken down which clearly isnt the case here.

Click to expand...

LMAO.

It's a somewhat well-known Chinese 支黑 (Chinese hater but "hater" as in "Chinese people should die" kind of hate) on mil Twitter, whose entire focus is to discredit the PLA's capabilities.

It's obvious to anyone with common sense that these papers have been modified to comply with OPSEC requirements.

The funny part is that it clearly says, "Type 346 has a range of more than 450 km," while "Type 346B, which is more advanced than Type 346A, and in turn more advanced than Type 346, has a range of 400+ km."



(Perhaps there are some other factors at play, please do point them out if there are)

Iron Man said:

The first 055 was built in 2014. I would be absolutely shocked if the 346B incorporated GaN back then. I can imagine a 055A design, perhaps with IEP (and maybe a couple GTs less but uprated), using GaN MMICs in a new "346C" iteration, but certainly not the current version. Perhaps #17 onwards, for example if they built out 16 055s and 16 055As, or something like that.

Click to expand...

Leaving aside the inherent imprecision in using keel-laying dates as proxy for radar system...

German F125 predates 055 and its TRS-4D radar is said to be a GaN-based.

Japanese 25DD is roughly contemporaneous with 055 and its FCS-3A radar is said to be GaN-based.

Why is it implausible that China could likewise put a GaN-based radar into service in a similar timeframe?