052C/052D Class Destroyers

FriedRiceNSpice said:

You seem to not be able to comprehend the fact that a ship can be designed for a radar system that is not yet ready. Even without having a physical working radar set, the key specs, ie power needs, cooling needs, size and weight, can be determined far in advance.

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You seem not to be able to comprehend that doing it this way tends to increase cost, just like the stupid designers of the F-35 thought they could do it this way and ended up wasting billions of dollars because concurrency.

Iron Man said:

You seem not to be able to comprehend that doing it this way tends to increase cost, just like the stupid designers of the F-35 thought they could do it this way and ended up wasting billions of dollars because concurrency.

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And how is the struggles of incompetent and inefficient LM staffed with 2nd rate engineers and 3rd rate project managers relevant to Chinese naval engineering?

FriedRiceNSpice said:

And how is the struggles of incompetent and inefficient LM staffed with 2nd rate engineers and 3rd rate project managers relevant to Chinese naval engineering?

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I guess you also seem not to be able to comprehend that any changes made based on already acted-on assumptions that later turned out to be false cost extra money, sometimes lots of extra money depending on how many downstream systems that also get impacted. This applies to the construction of any kind of complex object and does not discriminate between planes or ships, or between Lockheed Martin or CSSC. Fact is there was no reason to implement any kind of accelerated and risky building schedule like (e.g. "concurrency") for CSSC given there was no reward to build it as fast as possible. Building a first-in-class ship this way is even more of a stupid risk to take.

Iron Man said:

I guess you also seem not to be able to comprehend that any changes made based on already acted-on assumptions that later turned out to be false cost extra money, sometimes lots of extra money depending on how many downstream systems that also get impacted. This applies to the construction of any kind of complex object and does not discriminate between planes or ships, or between Lockheed Martin or CSSC. Fact is there was no reason to implement any kind of accelerated and risky building schedule like (e.g. "concurrency") for CSSC given there was no reward to build it as fast as possible. Building a first-in-class ship this way is even more of a stupid risk to take.

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I guess you also seem not to be able to comprehend how modern engineering works, not just for planes and ships but for any sufficiently complex engineering project.

By your logic, no J-20 should have been produced until WS-15 was ready and the latest iteration of the J-20 radar was in production. Do you think it's a bigger engineering challenge to change engines for an aircraft or to change radar panels and software for a ship?

FriedRiceNSpice said:

I guess you also seem not to be able to comprehend how modern engineering works, not just for planes and ships but for any sufficiently complex engineering project.

By your logic, no J-20 should have been produced until WS-15 was ready and the latest iteration of the J-20 radar was in production.

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You seem to not be able to comprehend that the J-20 was always designed with the WS-15 in mind; that was always the end goal engine. OTOH you or anyone else has provided literally ZERO evidence that a GaN-based radar for the 055 ever existed or was ever the end goal for the original 055 design.

FriedRiceNSpice said:

Do you think it's a bigger engineering challenge to change engines for an aircraft or to change radar panels and software for a ship?

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You also seem to not be able to comprehend that it would never just be a simple change change of radar panels and software, but also a change in computing power needed, a change in operating and maintenance control panels, a change in power requirements, and a change in cooling requirements, all of which involve changes in hardware, software, and shipboard space. I have already stated this over in the 055 thread, but it looks like you conveniently didn't read it.

Iron Man said:

You seem to not be able to comprehend that the J-20 was always designed with the WS-15 in mind; that was always the end goal engine. OTOH you or anyone else has provided literally ZERO evidence that a GaN-based radar for the 055 ever existed or was ever the end goal for the original 055 design

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If you think the 055 was not designed with GaN in mind then we can only agree to disagree. As this is a 052D thread let's just leave it at that.

Iron Man said:

You also seem to not be able to comprehend that it would never just be a simple change change of radar panels and software, but also a change in computing power needed, a change in operating and maintenance control panels, a change in power requirements, and a change in cooling requirements, all of which involve changes in hardware, software, and shipboard space.

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As I mentioned in a previous post, regardless of whether the first or first several 055s actually carry GaA or GaN onboard, it would be designed with the power generation and cooling needs for fitting on GaN in mind.