052C/052D Class Destroyers

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
I'm very interested to see how this pans out as well.

Western media has a common practice of deliberate false bad takes for the purpose of headlines that pander to their reader base. They then either ignore the correction or give so little effort to the correction that the majority of their reader base miss it and are still influenced by the original fake premise - in other words, mission accomplished.

Taking the 2 extremes of how this ends ...

Either Xavier writes his explainer and we get our eyes opened on certain critical issues with the PLAN - which objectively we will all appreciate the knowledge of, if it is true.

Or he carries on dodging and the longer he dodges, the less credibility he has and we (or myself, at least) can safely consign him to the trash heap of journos to ignore.

I think it's worth revisiting this ever so infrequently just to give it a bump in consciousness. Personally, my threshold is about half-a-year. by78's posts are a serious question on Xavier's credibility - if Xavier can't muster up the time (a day?) in 6 months to address something like this, then he's either hoping it dies down or he has no respect for the community at large.

I don’t think that the intention is that insidious. More likely than not Xavier either didn’t enter 052D or got a very limited tour, and tried to pretend that he saw more than he did with and outlandish expose, banking on the fact that PLA’s obsession with secrecy would keep him from being exposed. Little did he know that there already are public videos of the 052DL’s interior! Released a few months before no less.

I think the smart thing for him to do now is to wait until everyone forgets about this. Either that or clarify some of the points he originally made, though the extreme nature of his accusations make it very difficult to make rectifying measures. You either have water proof doors or you don’t. You either have fire fighting equipment or you don’t. We have extensive screen caps from two videos that debunk his claims pretty hard. Unless, of course, PLAN covered all of them with propaganda posters because they thought fire extinguishers were eyesores and wanted it to look nice for foreigners. :)

What makes this so baffling is that instead of doing something with plausible deniability he chose to make such bold and easily debunkable claims. If he claimed that Chinese fire extinguishers are less sophisticated than ones used on US ships or something then it is not so easily to disprove him.
 
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Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don’t think that the intention is that insidious. More likely than not Xavier either didn’t enter 052D or got a very limited tour, and tried to pretend that he saw more than he did with and outlandish expose, banking on the fact that PLA’s obsession with secrecy would keep him from being exposed. Little did he know that there already are public videos of the 052DL’s interior! Released a few months before no less.

Can't quite see how that is not a bad take on Xavier intent with the article.
More insidious, less insidious - Same same but different ...


I think the smart thing for him to do now is to wait until everyone forgets about this. Either that or clarify some of the points he originally made, though the extreme nature of his accusations make it very difficult to make rectifying measures. You either have water proof doors or you don’t. You either have fire fighting equipment or you don’t. We have extensive screen caps from two videos that debunk his claims pretty hard.

What makes this so baffling is that instead of doing something with plausible deniability he chose to make such bold and easily debunkable claims. If he claimed that Chinese fire extinguishers are less sophisticated than ones used on US ships or something then it is not so easily to disprove him.

That's a good point. He could have gone with disparaging what was there - faulty made-in-China extinguishers, "water tight" doors that look too flimsy etc, but instead decided to create an alternate reality.

Anyway, the jury is still out. He has a right to reply and give context to his take. Giving him the benefit of doubt till then but I'm definitely watching this space ...
 

pevade

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don’t think that the intention is that insidious. More likely than not Xavier either didn’t enter 052D or got a very limited tour, and tried to pretend that he saw more than he did with and outlandish expose, banking on the fact that PLA’s obsession with secrecy would keep him from being exposed. Little did he know that there already are public videos of the 052DL’s interior! Released a few months before no less.

I think the smart thing for him to do now is to wait until everyone forgets about this. Either that or clarify some of the points he originally made, though the extreme nature of his accusations make it very difficult to make rectifying measures. You either have water proof doors or you don’t. You either have fire fighting equipment or you don’t. We have extensive screen caps from two videos that debunk his claims pretty hard. Unless, of course, PLAN covered all of them with propaganda posters because they thought fire extinguishers were eyesores and wanted it to look nice for foreigners. :)

What makes this so baffling is that instead of doing something with plausible deniability he chose to make such bold and easily debunkable claims. If he claimed that Chinese fire extinguishers are less sophisticated than ones used on US ships or something then it is not so easily to disprove him.
Watch him double down on his lie.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Seems like one of the three 052DLs currently under construction in the drydock at Dalian has been moved to the outer half of the drydock.

All three of the 052DLs were still in their original positions (in the inner half the drydock) at Dalian two weeks ago (when the latest-previous overhead satellite imagery is available), so I believe the move is made quite recently.

2023-08-24-00_00_2023-08-24-23_59_Sentinel-2_L2A_True_color.jpg
 
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ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Latest progress on the two 052DLs that were launched early this year and now fitting-out at Dalian. Posted by @笑里Cang刀 on Weibo.

Note the top of the mast - The Type 368 radar replacing the Type 364 radar, as previously noted for this (4th) batch.

008bC9udgy1hhba8pqwaaj33402c0hdu.jpg
008bC9udgy1hhba8sfapdj33402c0kjm.jpg

Also, it does look like these two 052DLs will be ready for sea trials in just a couple months' time.
 
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kriss

Junior Member
Registered Member
Seems like one of the three 052DLs currently under construction in the drydock at Dalian has been moved to the outer half of the drydock.

All three of the 052DLs were still in their original positions (in the inner half the drydock) at Dalian two weeks ago (when the latest-previous overhead satellite imagery is available), so I believe the move is made quite recently.

View attachment 117738
Why don't they move all three?
 

Helius

Senior Member
Registered Member
Latest progress on the two 052DLs that were launched early this year and now fitting-out at Dalian. Posted by @笑里Cang刀 on Weibo.

Note the top of the mast - The Type 368 radar replacing the Type 364 radar, as previously noted for this (4th) batch.

View attachment 117774
View attachment 117775

Also, it does look like these two 052DLs will be ready for sea trials in just a couple months' time.
Still the same Type 347G on the 1130 though.

At this point I'm starting to wonder if the AESA radar is still WIP, and whether the Fujian would even have that variant on her CIWS come sea trials.
 

sequ

Major
Registered Member
Still the same Type 347G on the 1130 though.

At this point I'm starting to wonder if the AESA radar is still WIP, and whether the Fujian would even have that variant on her CIWS come sea trials.
Just speculating, it might have something to do with the stability of the platform on sea. The destroyer being smaller and lighter than a carrier, is more subject to movement, and thus the use of a mechanically stabilized radar instead of an electronically one.
 

by78

General
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More nonsense from Xavier that I have to debunk.

The 052D in fact has a chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear defense system (a.k.a. CBRN or NBC defense system). The system uses internal atmospheric over-pressurization and filtration to keep out contaminants. Basically, certain watertight doors on the ship also serve as airlock doors when the internal atmosphere is over-pressurized, and these doors may have warnings and indicator lights to inform the crew when over-pressurization is in progress so that they don't accidentally open the doors.

The Arleigh Burke class also features a similar system, called Collection Protection System (CPS). It has three progressive protection levels: 1) airtight doors that connect outside weather decks to the minimally protected interior spaces; 2) airtight doors that separate the minimally protected spaces from the intermediately protected areas; 3) airlocks that separate the intermediately protected areas from totally protected areas.

See images below for 052D's CBRN defense system. It's really easy to spot, so it's impossible for Xavier not to have seen it during his tour of the ship, even if he doesn't read Chinese.


53059371804_2ab6dbb458_3k.jpg

I now have a likely confirmation that the watertight door (first image below) located next to the helicopter hangar belongs to an
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. The second image below shows the interior of DDG 173, specifically the area around her starboard rigid inflatable boat. The watertight door in this image is likely the second door of the airlock. So basically the very first set of watertight doors that Xavier (@XavNN) went through on his alleged tour belong to an airlock. He would have to be blind as a bat to miss it.

53146621255_473ba98287_h.jpg

53145638042_e9284fa182_k.jpg
 
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