052C/052D Class Destroyers

luosifen

Senior Member
Registered Member
Whether PLAN is serious about firefighting can be easily confirmed by one thing as far as I'm concern.
Do they teach and practice firefighting even as far back as bootcamp? Is so good, if not then Xavier is right. PLAN appears to not take firefighting seriously then which would be a cardinal sin in a modern navy!
Any Navy which puts firefighting in the back burner no pun intended can't be a world class navy.
Firefighting is one of the most important component of seamanship.
Every recruit in USN RTC has over 40 hours of firefighting training just in bootcamp alone.
So the US Navy is no longer world class I suppose:


What is important for PLAN is whether the entire crew goes through damage control training or only certain specialists onboard, which would be what the WW2 Japanese Navy did with horrible results.

zszczhyx said:
I found these Chinese papers "The application and development of watertight door on foreign naval warships" and "Discussion on the Selection of Marine Watertight Door" which is from Naval Armament Department of PLA.
Conclusion -

从国外海军舰船水密门应用和发展可以看出,美国海军在水密门的设计、试验、使用和维护等方面均有较为系统的规范标准。针对我国舰船水密门关闭不严、承载能力较弱、缺乏抗冲击指标要求、规格类型多、耐腐蚀能力差、难于维护保养、标准规范体系不完善等问题,为了进一步规范水密门设计选型,改进水密门的性能,建议开展必要的系统性研究工作,深入分析、解读国内外规范要求的内涵,广泛听取使用部队的意见,从提高承载能力、增强抗冲击性能、提升标准化水平、减轻重量、提高耐腐蚀能力等方面入手,修改完善我国规范中有关舰船用门的设计选型方法和要求,以进一步提高我国舰艇的抗损能力。

Machine translate -
From the application and development of watertight doors of foreign naval ships, it can be seen that the US Navy has relatively systematic norms and standards in the design, test, use and maintenance of watertight doors. In order to further standardize the design and selection of watertight doors, the watertight doors of Chinese ships are not tightly closed, the carrying capacity is weak, the lack of impact resistance index requirements, many types of specifications, poor corrosion resistance, difficult maintenance, and imperfect standard specification systems. To improve the performance of watertight doors, it is recommended to carry out necessary systematic research work, in-depth analysis and interpretation of the connotation of domestic and foreign normative requirements, and extensively listen to the opinions of user units, from improving bearing capacity, enhancing impact resistance, improving standardization level, and reducing weight, improve corrosion resistance and other aspects, modify and improve the design and selection methods and requirements of ship doors according to our country's codes, so as to further improve the damage resistance of our ships.
The papers were published in 2015, are they referencing pre-052D warships?
 
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kwaigonegin

Colonel
So the US Navy is no longer world class I suppose:


What is important for PLAN is whether the entire crew goes through damage control training or only certain specialists onboard, which would be what the WW2 Japanese Navy did with horrible results.


The papers were published in 2015, are they referencing pre-052D warships?
What a silly argument to make. If anything this proves my point further than inspite of training fires can and still do happen.
And while there are certain people who are trained in more advanced firefighting skills, everyone on board should have allready qualified on basic techniques etc
There was a study made a while back by the USN that it us imperative where everyone knows damage control and not just COs or higher ups.
The idea is when a ship gets hit and most officers are KIA, the remaining crew must learn how to save the ship.
 
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vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
What a silly argument to make. If anything this proves my point further than inspite of training fires can and still do happen.
And while there are certain people who are trained in more advanced firefighting skills, everyone on board should have allready qualified on basic techniques etc
There was a study made a while back by the USN that it us imperative where everyone knows damage control and not just COs or higher ups.
The idea is when a ship gets hit and most officers are KIA, the remaining crew must learn how to save the ship.
Dude, instead of posting your musing, spend some time to watch the videos I posted
 

Helius

Senior Member
Registered Member
[snip]

The papers were published in 2015, are they referencing pre-052D warships?
052D constructions began circa 2012, while the designs and long-lead items would've been finalised and orders placed a further 2-3 years prior. So you can make you own assessment whether the paper's findings applied to the Type 052D, or any ships under construction during that period e.g. 054A, 055, 002 etc.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Dude, instead of posting your musing, spend some time to watch the videos I posted
I understand this is a very pro PLA forum in which to many, PLA can do no wrong however I'm just basing my opinion as someone who knows a lil bit about how things in the navy work and anecdotal observations.
Your videos showed a few clips of people practicing firefighting which is great however my question is how extensive or serious is damage control and fire planning as a whole system wide?
It'll be great if we have PLAN sailor here to talk about it but to my knowledge there are no PLA members here.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I understand this is a very pro PLA forum in which to many, PLA can do no wrong however I'm just basing my opinion as someone who knows a lil bit about how things in the navy work and anecdotal observations.
Your videos showed a few clips of people practicing firefighting which is great however my question is how extensive or serious is damage control and fire planning as a whole system wide?
It'll be great if we have PLAN sailor here to talk about it but to my knowledge there are no PLA members here.

On the one hand, the many videos and pictures of PLAN firefighting and damage control activities are not decisive for assessing what their relative firefighting and DC competency is like at an institutional level -- but at the same time, assessing their firefighting, DC and watertightness (lol) through a public tour on the 01 deck through the DC thoroughfare is also a bit ridiculous, and it is those remarks which led to the current discussion.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
On the one hand, the many videos and pictures of PLAN firefighting and damage control activities are not decisive for assessing what their relative firefighting and DC competency is like at an institutional level -- but at the same time, assessing their firefighting, DC and watertightness (lol) through a public tour on the 01 deck through the DC thoroughfare is also a bit ridiculous, and it is those remarks which led to the current discussion.

I found the discussion useful and informative though.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I found the discussion useful and informative though.

If you're talking about the discussion here, sure, in the sense that people took in effort to elaborate and clarify things. After all the fastest way to get a thorough response is to post things which are flawed or incorrect, but that is also tiring and annoying for the people doing the corrections.
 

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
Another caveat that may be useful to consider as I'm no SME, are modern warships more flammable than those of WW2? It may be that based on moving to less reactive, newer explosives developed since then, PLA designers may have decided that some fire safety considerations should be given less priority to when weighing against mass penalties and ship performance.

Ship armament also moved from majority shell based to missile based, that could be a big change in the storage location of volatiles and expected location of major fires.
 
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