052C/052D Class Destroyers

Temstar said:

12 052DE would immediately put any country ahead of Russia, UK and France in terms of destroyer firepower.

Shilao and Yankee said they could entertain that the Algerian news was real (buy 3, technology transfer then self assemble 3 more), but not Saudi buying 12. The fact that this rumour about Saudi buying 12 emerging makes them doubt the Algeria news too now.

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I would very much doubt Algeria is buying 6 in total. But 2 to 3 seems plausible given how many Chinese warships they have ordered in the past.

As for the Saudis, they bought LCS. Com'on, even they must know it's garbage. US Navy is not even hiding how little they think of it. So it would not surprise me if they bought 2 or 3 of them. Whether or not they need 7000t surface ships is a different story.

how many 052D are under construction atm in Jiangnan and Dalian?

ACuriousPLAFan said:

Algeria does see a massive spike in their defense budget for this year, so the rumors of Algeria buying 3 052DEs does merit a little bit of viability.

In the meantime, what enemy would Saudi Arabia face on the sea which necessitate having 12(!) 052DEs? The IRIAN and IRCGN does not need 12 052DEs to deal with, while the RSAF and RSSMF is perfectly capable of dealing with them alongside the RSN. Besides, as long as US military installations are present in and around Saudi Arabia, there is little probability that Riyadh is going to go openly against any NATO members.

The only probable adversary in the Indian Ocean region which necessitates having 12 052DEs is the Indian Navy. However, Riyadh-New Delhi relations don't seem to be going bad anytime soon, so that warrants even more doubt on the need of 12 052DEs, IMHO.

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Lol, if it's true I'd bet they just want to have overkill vs. Iran, makes perfect sense to me. Probably accounting for some loss against their spammy missile boats too. People here don't seem to get the Saudi psychology, they are absolutely terrified of Iran. When you have unlimited money, what else to spend it on but some peace of mind.

I'd be quite surprised if no one bought the 052DE to be honest, surely there's hardly been a better deal in the history of naval exports, assuming China doesn't neuter it too hard.

DaTang cavalry said:

I very much doubt that Algeria's shipbuilding industry will be able to assemble three Aegis destroyers.

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Assembling an aegis destroyer isn't different from assembling a non-aegis destroyer.
The trick is to be able to get components - and they will be obviously imported.

clockwork said:

Lol, if it's true I'd bet they just want to have overkill vs. Iran, makes perfect sense to me. Probably accounting for some loss against their spammy missile boats too. People here don't seem to get the Saudi psychology, they are absolutely terrified of Iran. When you have unlimited money, what else to spend it on but some peace of mind.

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Sounds like a very Saudi "buy the best you have here, many" indeed.
But the purchase itself is weird, to say the least. Said fleet composition doesn't make any sense in the Persian gulf... unless prince Salman decided to build an actual blue water navy, completely outside of Iran context.

clockwork said:

Lol, if it's true I'd bet they just want to have overkill vs. Iran, makes perfect sense to me.

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Gulf is arguably the single worst place to be a destroyer. That's a single geography where spammy boats can swarm them - which is why US, UK, and Saudi Arabia itself went for specialized/adapted ship classes for this environment.

But 052D isn't adapted for it at all. If swarming works (and it is really difficult to deny in these constrained&overcrowded waters), whole destroyer fleets may be in peril.

clockwork said:

Lol, if it's true I'd bet they just want to have overkill vs. Iran, makes perfect sense to me. Probably accounting for some loss against their spammy missile boats too. People here don't seem to get the Saudi psychology, they are absolutely terrified of Iran. When you have unlimited money, what else to spend it on but some peace of mind.

I'd be quite surprised if no one bought the 052DE to be honest, surely there's hardly been a better deal in the history of naval exports, assuming China doesn't neuter it too hard.

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Someone on Weibo had a really good analogy for 052DE: it's like as if during the interbellum UK went on the market and offered to sell to anyone Hood class battlecruiser.

Gloire_bb said:

Said fleet composition doesn't make any sense in the Persian gulf

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Indeed. I guess they see a benefit in controlling the waters beyond the Gulf in a conflict? Wouldn't be much point to have these in the Gulf itself.

clockwork said:

Indeed. I guess they see a benefit in controlling the waters beyond the Gulf in a conflict? Wouldn't be much point to have these in the Gulf itself.

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Can't say, not all (mildly speaking) gulf purchases make sense.
But (big but) if the rumor is true, and it's part of something - it's basically a testamento of intention to build Saudi's very own blue water navy - with more orders of corresponding stuff (infrastructure, support fleet, submarines, probably - carriers) to follow.

I don’t think Saudi is planning for war with Iran, they are planning for peace with Iran in fact.

I was thinking about the way lazy people writes 12 or 1 2 (one or two) and 12 (twelve).....

clockwork said:

Indeed. I guess they see a benefit in controlling the waters beyond the Gulf in a conflict? Wouldn't be much point to have these in the Gulf itself.

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Who would they be guarding those waters against, in that case?