052/052B Class Destroyers

antiterror13

Brigadier
Re: DDG 052C Thread

this photo show the 3nd or 4th of this batch 052C in JN ship yard ,modular construction, in which the bow section. as we know the first one launched,the second one already completed the hull and entered into the dry dock.

[qimg]http://i56.tinypic.com/20ztctc.jpg[/qimg]

hmmmm ... extremely fast these two babies may enter service in mid 2011

2011 indeed is going to be very interesting year for PLAN ... 2 new 052C++, several 054A+, new type subs or enhanced Yuan, 2 071+, 056, etc ... wowww very busy indeed
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Re: DDG 052C Thread

Unless they designed the ships with hot launch vls in mind and installed all the venting or at least left room for them, then a refit will be very costly and time consuming, and may not really be worth it ultimately.

The PLAN no doubt would like a flexible cell based VLS like the mk41, but considering the HQ16 was their first cell based hot launch vls, it was probably optimistic to hope theu would have a mk41 equivilant so soon after.

Tbh, i think the 052c will likely remain as they are till retirement. They are pretty fine ships after all, and its not like the PLAN plan on doing that much long range ground attak in the future. And if they did, the varyag's air wing would make a far more cost effective means to blowing something up far from Chinese shores.

If the PLAN desperately need cruise missile launchers, im sure they can fit them on the J15, and in a worst case scanario, they can strip a few land based launchers on the 071 LPD and send that along.


Agree .... even old 052C is comparable to new British DDG Type 45 or the French ones ... even in some areas are better.

Jezzz it took 7-8 year to improve or to sort all bugs ? .... very long time for Chinese standard

I am very excited to see the actual layout and specs of this new 052C++ ... I am hoping this new baby will have more VLS ... perhaps 60 or 72
 
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maozedong

Banned Idiot
Re: DDG 052C Thread

hmmmm ... extremely fast these two babies may enter service in mid 2011

2011 indeed is going to be very interesting year for PLAN ... 2 new 052C++, several 054A+, new type subs or enhanced Yuan, 2 071+, 056, etc ... wowww very busy indeed

Yes, 2011 indeed is going to be very interesting year for PLAN, not only 2 new 052C, the other 2 of 052C will be launch in 2011, so, total 4 of new 052C (or 052C+) for PLAN in 2011.
after 2011, more 052C+ coming.... see the picture from the latest chinese magazine below:

331ho4y.jpg
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Re: DDG 052C Thread

Yes, 2011 indeed is going to be very interesting year for PLAN, not only 2 new 052C, the other 2 of 052C will be launch in 2011, so, total 4 of new 052C (or 052C+) for PLAN in 2011.
after 2011, more 052C+ coming.... see the picture from the latest chinese magazine below:

[qimg]http://i55.tinypic.com/331ho4y.jpg[/qimg]

What ???? .... 4 052C++ ..... any proof ?

Also Varyag would be ready in 2011 ... very very busy year for PLAN ... not sure whether PLAN human resources would be able to deal with this ???? ... but mind you a lot of college graduates are struggling find a job ... some of them must be extremely good ... so perhaps there is no recruitment issue in China ..... perhaps the most challenging task would be TRAINING
 

Skywatcher

Captain
Re: DDG 052C Thread

r.

Jezzz it took 7-8 year to improve or to sort all bugs ? .... very long time for Chinese standard

It took the USN nearly a decade to work out the bugs in the AEGIS system. The PLAN might have better technology today than the USN did thirty years ago, but the operational requirements have also expanded since the 1980s.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: DDG 052C Thread

Agree .... even old 052C is comparable to new British DDG Type 45 or the French ones ... even in some areas are better.

Jezzz it took 7-8 year to improve or to sort all bugs ? .... very long time for Chinese standard

I am very excited to see the actual layout and specs of this new 052C++ ... I am hoping this new baby will have more VLS ... perhaps 60 or 72

Type 45 is the most advanced AAW out there imo. If 052C can get to it's level, then it has really done well. Remember, it's not just about how many missiles you have, but the ability to detect many targets at long range, track those targets and pass those information with other ships using the same combat system and have missiles that can reliably knock down many targets at the same time. Type 45 does not have the luxury of having E-2s and other ships providing it with targeting data, so each ship's sensors/combat system would have to do a lot more work. On top of that, it can engage more target due to having actively guided SAM and Sampson having more channels than AB.

052C should strive to have the same tracking capability and be able to take data from Ka-31s, KJ-200s and other assets, combine that information and then engage targets as a group. Basically, they should try to develop something like Cooperative Engagement Capability. Something like that takes years to develop and sort out all of the issues. I'm glad they took 7 years to really refine and upgrade the combat systems on 052C, but it's going to be an ongoing progress. From looking at the current Chinese electronics technology, they are going to have state of the art command consoles, communication systems, datalink, Ethernet cable and such. Even when it comes to the multi-functional radars on 052C, ECM/ESM systems and other sensors, they should not be that far away from the best. But the question is how good 052C is at combining everything together in its operations. The other question is how good its is at cooperating with other assets in its operations.

These are not easy questions to answer. Of course, when people look at ships, they count the number of missiles first, but that really should not be the holy grail.
 

Twix101

Junior Member
Re: DDG 052C Thread

Type 45 is the most advanced AAW out there imo. If 052C can get to it's level, then it has really done well. Remember, it's not just about how many missiles you have, but the ability to detect many targets at long range, track those targets and pass those information with other ships using the same combat system and have missiles that can reliably knock down many targets at the same time. Type 45 does not have the luxury of having E-2s and other ships providing it with targeting data, so each ship's sensors/combat system would have to do a lot more work. On top of that, it can engage more target due to having actively guided SAM and Sampson having more channels than AB.

052C should strive to have the same tracking capability and be able to take data from Ka-31s, KJ-200s and other assets, combine that information and then engage targets as a group. Basically, they should try to develop something like Cooperative Engagement Capability. Something like that takes years to develop and sort out all of the issues. I'm glad they took 7 years to really refine and upgrade the combat systems on 052C, but it's going to be an ongoing progress. From looking at the current Chinese electronics technology, they are going to have state of the art command consoles, communication systems, datalink, Ethernet cable and such. Even when it comes to the multi-functional radars on 052C, ECM/ESM systems and other sensors, they should not be that far away from the best. But the question is how good 052C is at combining everything together in its operations. The other question is how good its is at cooperating with other assets in its operations.

These are not easy questions to answer. Of course, when people look at ships, they count the number of missiles first, but that really should not be the holy grail.

You're absolutely right, having many missiles without the means to coordinates guidance of more than 2 simultaneously is useless. The Great strength of all AEGIS-based and PAAMS-based ships reside in the capability of the system to treat, filter, prioritize all sensors data, project a global situation awareness and then give operators the simplest way to engage desired targets.

But I think, with the recent pictures we have seen so far of the Type 54A CIC and the level of advancement we have seen in the console configuration it is still a good sign of the Chinese Defense Industry progress, but, the core of the thing is still algorithms and there is no way to get capabilities and for a good reasons of those algorithms.

But the time separating the launch of the 2 first Type 052C and the serial production shows that they must have been working on it.

Also like you have pointed out is how advanced the progress is on their new datalink systems, do they have something similar to Link16/Link22 operational ?
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Re: DDG 052C Thread

You're absolutely right, having many missiles without the means to coordinates guidance of more than 2 simultaneously is useless. The Great strength of all AEGIS-based and PAAMS-based ships reside in the capability of the system to treat, filter, prioritize all sensors data, project a global situation awareness and then give operators the simplest way to engage desired targets.

But I think, with the recent pictures we have seen so far of the Type 54A CIC and the level of advancement we have seen in the console configuration it is still a good sign of the Chinese Defense Industry progress, but, the core of the thing is still algorithms and there is no way to get capabilities and for a good reasons of those algorithms.

But the time separating the launch of the 2 first Type 052C and the serial production shows that they must have been working on it.

Also like you have pointed out is how advanced the progress is on their new datalink systems, do they have something similar to Link16/Link22 operational ?

Yes, ALGORITHMS is the key and Chinese engineers together with The Russians and Israelis are the best ... give them another 5-10 years they will be able to put it together very nicely.

Best brain in the US don't go to science or engineering faculties but go to Business school and end up in Wall street and LAWYER ... which are pretty useless unfortunately :p. In China, India, etc ... their best brains go to science and engineering ... they value science and engineering very very highly
 

montyp165

Senior Member
Re: DDG 052C Thread

Also like you have pointed out is how advanced the progress is on their new datalink systems, do they have something similar to Link16/Link22 operational ?

Something at least the level of Link16 was supposed to operational last I heard, although a Link22 equipment was also being developed too.

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Roger604

Senior Member
Re: DDG 052C Thread

Between 2009-2010 the construction restarted on an improved 052C DDG with a displacement approaching 7,000t (Type 052C+?). Two ships are being built. The first ship was launched on November 28, 2010 at the Hudong Shipyard.
I thought there are 4 destroyer hulls being assembled in HD? But huitong's site says two Type 052C+ are being built. So what are the two other ones? The Type 052D with the integrated mast sensors and hot launch square VLS?
 
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