052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

plawolf said:

Don't forget the main gun will also have some AA capability. Thus, pairing the '730 with the main gun helps to give the forward arch reach, but also the insurance of the '730 to catch any leakers.

The FN3000 OTOH, is all by itself at the back, so it needs to be able to deal with any threats by itself. As such, I think you put your best CIWS at the back because it won't have any back up, and stick your second best at the front to double up with the main gun.

The other reason for putting the '730 up front is its secondary surface engagement potential. Often, when dealing with small fast moving craft, the main gun is either overkill or not wholly suitable. A gun based CIWS is perfect for such targets, so it makes sense to put your gun based CIWS at the front for obvious reasons.

Click to expand...

I think the location of the CIWS and FN3000 are probably dictated by the desire to make minimum changes to 052C layout.

I see some complaints about 052D having different close in defence capabilities to the forward and to the rear. While not having 360 degree coverage for either weapon may seem deficient, it really isn't. Most directions, probably 300 degrees in two 150 degree slices to either beam out of a total of 360 degrees, can still be covered by both weapons at once. So for most directions, the 052D now has a two layer, combined arms, close defence where as 052C has only a single layer defence. There would be a slice, maybe 30-40 degrees, directly ahead and directly astern that could be covered only by one weapon. But so what? The defence in either of those two slices would still be at least as good as what was available to the 052C.

So the 052D's close defence capability is no worse than the 052C in any direction, and likely far better in 80% of all directions. Without having two each of FN-3000 and goal keeper CIWS, it is not easy to see how it can get any better.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

People's Daily Online said:

The 052D destroyer is equipped with new vertical launching system. Compared with 052C destroyer, the new system is able to contain large-scale weapons, including “DH-10” cruise missile and “HQ-9” long-range air-defense missile. The number of missile launch devices also increases from 48 to 64, giving 052D stronger firepower than 052C.

As for the vertical launch function of 052D new-type missile destroyer, Chinese military expert Yin Zhuo said that the vertical launching technique has been used in many countries actually, such as the U.S. and Russia.

Yin Zhou said:

"Our vertical launching function has also been used on 052C and 054A vessels. The launch has the advantage of rapid response. For example, a vertically launched air defense missile can be instantly redirected to attack a sea-skimming missile. Second, the vessel body doesn’t need to change in the process of vertical launching. The anti-ship missile in the past used fixed launchers, so they needed to set rotation angle, or the vessel needed to maneuver to aim at target. By comparison, vertical launch does not need this process so it will enhance our abilities of rapid response.}

Click to expand...

According to Yin Zhuo, the differences between 052D and the most advanced missile destroyer in the world include:

Yin Zhuo said:

"First, there are still gaps in the information level. Compared with the most advanced destroyers in the world, our functions in information level is relatively inferior. For example, there are differences in the response time, bandwidth of transmission, immunity from interference and anti-destruction ability.

Second, there are also differences in the maturity of techniques. Our phased array radar in the destroyer is flat, which is different from the curved one on 052C. It features more powerful functions and multi-target tracking and handling capabilities. But there are still differences in terms of maturity of our techniques comparing with the most advanced destroyers throughout the world.}

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I found this to be an interesting article, and gives some more detail about the Type 052D, depending on how credible this Yin Zhuo is.

BTW, just for everyone's information, the three flags flying there on the Type 052D are international nautical signal flags. The top flag represents and "R", the middle flag represents a "U", and the bottom flag represents a "1". So the entire message is "RU1."

"RU1" in the international nautical signal language stands for "Am conducting maneuvering exercises."

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Good looking ship, the 052D.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I found this to be an interesting article, and gives some more detail about the Type 052D, depending on how credible this Yin Zhuo is

Click to expand...

I wonder which western navy ship they are comparing themselves to in terms of information processing, and also how they managed to garner information on how well similar western ships perform. Personally I wouldnt' place too much weight on that sentence, mostly because the PLA tends to generally throw in a caveat of "this area we are not as potent for reasons X Y and Z". That isn't to say it isn't true, but I sometimes wonder if that is just a prudent way of saying "our modernization isn't complete yet so don't criticize us for spending on our military".


I would say the most solid piece of information from this article, is that 052D will be capable of launching DH-10, but even that is dubious as the people's daily might just be regurgitating stuff they've seen from the internet (even if we all expect 052D capable of launching LACMs).

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Bltizo said:

I wonder which western navy ship they are comparing themselves to in terms of information processing, and also how they managed to garner information on how well similar western ships perform.

Click to expand...

My guess is they are talking almost surely about the AEGIS and the Type 42/Horizon vessels.

But. set that aside for a second...Bltizo another 880 posts or so and you will join our highly respected and pretty exclusive SD 5,000 post club! I believe escobar is going to be the next inductee as he has only about 100 posts to go.

Come on down!

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:

But. set that aside for a second...Bltizo another 880 posts or so and you will join our highly respected and pretty exclusive SD 5,000 post club! I believe escobar is going to be the next inductee as he has only about 100 posts to go.

Click to expand...

OT here... but... what would you get if you reach 5000 posts? Do SD forum give out premium SD T-Shirt and a watch?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:

My guess is they are talking almost surely about the AEGIS and the Type 42/Horizon vessels.

But. set that aside for a second...Bltizo another 880 posts or so and you will join our highly respected and pretty exclusive SD 5,000 post club! I believe escobar is going to be the next inductee as he has only about 100 posts to go.

Come on down!

Click to expand...

They were probably trying to compare it to the AB Fl.II, which is what the PLAN is trying to emulate. A big factor on the Type 052D radar capabilities would rely on whether it inducts the Chinese SMART-L counterpart seen in testing or not.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

rhino123 said:

OT here... but... what would you get if you reach 5000 posts? Do SD forum give out premium SD T-Shirt and a watch?

Click to expand...

Hehehe...no, you get exclusive rights to post in the SD 5,000 post club room under the Members Forum.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I honestly wouldn't mind if the 52D was up to par with AEGIS and they kept on telling everyone it's not.

I wouldn't want to show my entire hand on the poker table before I place my bets.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

drunkmunky said:

I honestly wouldn't mind if the 52D was up to par with AEGIS and they kept on telling everyone it's not.

I wouldn't want to show my entire hand on the poker table before I place my bets.

Click to expand...

Since Aegis is deployed to a hundred ships and has seen 30 years of service and continuous service and progressive evolution, it would be hard to beat it in short order in terms of system maturity, and practical, experience tempered operational capability. The new chinese system would necessarily be far less mature, and for it to equal agis's overall operational effectivness in the near future, it had better have some significant better fundamental capability then aegis.