052/052B Class Destroyers

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

The CCL VLS is not that much bigger than Mk 41. I can't remember where to pull up the dimensional analyses of the two VLS when 052D first came out, but if you look at some of the overhead shots of 052D and its VLS and compare with similar photos of tico (recalling that both have near identical beams), they are not that much different. That is to say, for the same area which X number of CCL VLS uses, you can practically fit maybe X+1 Mk 41 VLS modules. (depending how big X is)

Zumwalt only has 80 Mk 56 VLS because most of the space on that ship is dedicated to two massive freaking AGS. Replace both with a single 127mm gun and you'd get a hell of a lot of room to fit more VLS. Zumwalt is intended to be a multirole vessel with strong emphasis (I woudl say it is compromised) for shore bombardment capability. The fact that it's 14k tons and "only" has 80 VLS is ignoring its unique armament.

Similarly, if 055 is indeed 12,000 tons then the PLAN are definitely aiming for a cruiser. They don't have a need to put AGS like guns onboard, so what will that space and mass be used for instead? Well more VLS cells and command and control facilities of course. If they have less than 128 VLS I'd be very disappointed, considering ticos are <10k tons and have such a number too.

If PLAN are serious about defending CVBGs and advancing their capabilities they will need cruisers. The requirement for such ships is there.

(And that part about providing fire support for attacking other countries is flawed as well -- having 128 or more VLS doesn't mean you inherently have to load LACMs onboard. ROKN have 3 sejong "DDGs," and they're not out to fire tomahawks at third world countries...)
 

joshuatree

Captain
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

a fan made drawing of a concept, but I don't like it. it looks 170 meters long, displacement god knows what, probably a cruiser, not a destroyer. quite cluttered superstructure, not a bit cleaner than current ships in build. Doubious intake/exhaust positioning and design. Too large aft vls bay.

For a real next gen class i hope to see a 9-10 thousand tons displacement, not really longer hull, just wider than 052. Significantly redesigned and simplified superstructure, clean lines, as little nooks and crannies as possible, integrated sensor masts, etc. 80 or so vls would be quite enough. Perhaps only a single helo hangar would suffice, if there's a dedicated 054b asw frigate nearby, which it might be.


Definitely fan art as some features don't quite make sense. The panel for a RHIB enclosure is alongside the rear VLS, insufficient room. However, I do wish the 052Ds would sport an exhaust stack with reduced RCIS features. They ended up doing that for the 056, it can't be that hard.
 

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

one should keep in mind that the new chinese universal vls, as seen on 052d, is quite a bit bigger system than mk41. it is not realistic to compare them on one for one basis. chinese one can carry quite a bit larger missiles. it is only natural that the total number of cells is smaller.
This is almost certainly incorrect. A CCL by nature must be larger because the venting is enclosed within the cell itself. The volume available for the missile may not actually be bigger, and it may even be SMALLER.

kinda like mk56 vls that zumwalts will use. it too is larger than mk41 and thus even a huge 14 thousand ton ship like zumwalt won't be carrying so many of them.
The Mark 56 VLS is not a CCL system and is certainly not comparable to the Chinese CCL. It is definitely much larger than the Mk 41 and will be able to hold both more and larger missiles.

plus there are the requirements. there is very specific reason why us ships have so many vls cells. the role of usn is different from the role of plan. plan ships are not mean nor will they be meant to provide fire support in attacks on whole foreign countries. At best, they will provide strikes on limited areas like a few bases and smaller islands.
This reasoning does not make any sense to me. No naval force will attack "whole foreign countries" unless this 'country' happens to be some podunk island nation in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Naval forces attack specific objectives, whether they are USN or PLAN. More cells provides more flexibility to carry any type of missile, not just LACM's.
 

A.Man

Major
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

052C-5, 152 Jinan Almost Ready For Sea Trial

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Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

the new chinese vls is modular, as we all know. hot launched missiles do require venting around the cell so a hot launched missile is surely not going to be any bigger than sm-2 or the like. a cold launched missile from the chinese vls can be bigger and heavier than anything hot launched from mk41.
 

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

the new chinese vls is modular, as we all know. hot launched missiles do require venting around the cell so a hot launched missile is surely not going to be any bigger than sm-2 or the like. a cold launched missile from the chinese vls can be bigger and heavier than anything hot launched from mk41.
The same thing applies to cold launch cells. The modularity of the VLS means that for cold launch, each cell must provide its own gas supply and ejection mechanism, again reducing the volume available, except this time in a vertical dimension.
 

hmmwv

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

the new chinese vls is modular, as we all know. hot launched missiles do require venting around the cell so a hot launched missile is surely not going to be any bigger than sm-2 or the like. a cold launched missile from the chinese vls can be bigger and heavier than anything hot launched from mk41.

The VLS allows a maximum of 850mm diameter canister, even with the concentric venting ring it will most likely still allow missiles with a diameter greater than 500mm even with folding wings. If they design it in a way that the vents occupy the spaces between the folding wings then the missile diameter can be even greater. If they use a squre canister the space between the square canister wall and the circular missile can also be used as vent, that will allow a missile size very close to 800mm, double that of a SM2.
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

which is precisely why largest cells are 9 meters long. That is longer than any s300 launch tube. We're talking about 1800 kg missiles, over seven meters long.

VLS itself is inefficient, space wise, when one talks about hot launched stuff. But as far as cold launched missiles go, it allows for larger and heavier payloads than mk41 offers.
 
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