052/052B Class Destroyers

LesAdieux

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Well, I would not include the Type 053s as modern, state of the art effective FFGs for the blue water. Nor would I include the FACs for any blue water consideration. Coastal defense and operations within the first island chain, yes. Blue water operations, no.

I would add the Type 054s in there...but only marginally because their self defense in terms of anti-air are severely lacking and they are therefore very vulnerable.

I would also add the Sovs and the Type 052Bs and Type 051Cs in there as strong blue water platforms...but not the Type 051B or the 052s...for the same reasons. Their air defense capabilieites are severelly lacking.

When you get down to it, with the six 052Cs and ultimately, let's say eight 052Ds (though we do not know how many they will actually build), and then with the two 052Bs, two 051Cs and four Sovs, the PLAN will have a total of 22 what I consider very effective, modern blue water DDGs.

With the 16 Type 054As and two Type 054s they will have 18 strong, state of the art blue water FFGs.

These 40 vessels represent a significant force in the Western Pacific, and when you add to them the new carriers the PLAN is contemplating, one of which is already commissioned, and the three LPDs, and whatever follows them, the PLAN is developing a very capable and very robust surface fleet.

I still contend that their great weakness in this regard, particularly in the blue water, is the lack of strong, state of the art SSNs in any appreciable numbers. It is a severe liability and vulnerability for them. Until they address this, in any potential conflict they will be at a very significant disaddvantage if they get outside the 1st island chain.

agree. another issue for the PLAN is that it has too many types in service, logistically it's hard to serve a class or a type which only contains one or two vessles, so I think 051B(167), 052(112/113) will retire.
 

hmmwv

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

It depends on what kind of missile if its a terrain following missille then no this would not be true like the tomahawk where more terrain like mountains and trees would help find its impact point better.

We are talking about SAMs specifically.
 

A.Man

Major
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

There is a rumor flying around: the 4th 052D will be built at Dalian Shipyard.
 
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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Possible.

Because even if the shipyard of Shanghai is great, it is logical that a 2nd participates in the production effort.
Dalian has already built destroyers.

Other rumor from several years, the CV are based at Yulin/SSF with as escort the first 2 T052D.
The CV are mainly used as " mobile air defense base " in south China sea.
In more SSF more close of Indian Ocean and between Taiwan/Strait of Malacca, i think it is the best place.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Not sure if it's news a 3rd 52D has shown up. That's what they're saying. I'm not keeping track so maybe someone can confirm it's true.

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luhai

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

agree. another issue for the PLAN is that it has too many types in service, logistically it's hard to serve a class or a type which only contains one or two vessles, so I think 051B(167), 052(112/113) will retire.

or serve as valuable Diplomatic, test, training platforms. It's nice to have a combat hull to test out new systems, doctrines or just go feel good trips without disturbing the front-line fleet.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

This got me think, perhaps SD-10 based systems would be viable upgrade path for these vessels in the Navy. Tons of HQ-7 based ships in the navy that still have service life left in them. A quad packed 8 cell (or even 16 cell on larger ships) VLS (4m version) may be possible.
I think and easier upgrade to the air defense capabilities of these vessels would be to simply add one or two FL-3000N missile systems to them, particularly and at least in place of any of those 8 cell 8 HQ-7 systems.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

@ A mace

I think that is the 1st and 2nd 052Ds at JNCX... definitely not the 3rd imo

The third 052D should be in one of the JNCX building halls. Apparently dalian started construction of 052Ds recently as well, which may be what you're thinking about?
 

luhai

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I think and easier upgrade to the air defense capabilities of these vessels would be to simply add one or two FL-3000N missile systems to them, particularly and at least in place of any of those 8 cell 8 HQ-7 systems.

FL-3000N can be an upgrade option for the small vessels, but range wise it's actually a decrease in capability over the HQ-7 systems. I think the Type 52 Harbin class will probably remain the way it is for rest of the service life, probably to perform missions like anti-piracy patrols while free the more potent main fleet for other missions. I can see Type 51B Shenzhen class been used to supplement the test ships as an operational test platform. Since it is a rather large ship with plenty of room to upgrade, and unlike test ship it can be deployed a fleet in exercises to test how new systems integrate in fleet and if it actually perform as intended. (This would follow more of US model of have a guinea pig ship to test new systems, and once it is done then begin serial production of standardized designs. While Soviet models seems to be building completely new class of ships to test new system before serial production standardized designs. And if there's any scope creep or problems needs to be fixed, the navy end up with 3 or 4 classes of similar designs each with very few ships. )

Although China now seems to start building 4 ships of brand new design with brand new systems before any real operational test. It might run the risk of having flaws uncovered later and must run expensive retro-fits in addition to taking a chunk of the fleet out of operation.
 
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Mysterre

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I think and easier upgrade to the air defense capabilities of these vessels would be to simply add one or two FL-3000N missile systems to them, particularly and at least in place of any of those 8 cell 8 HQ-7 systems.
If the Luda's and Luhu's have any life left in them I agree this is probably the best way to go. And no need to be conservative with these ships. They should get the 18 or 24 round launchers.

OTOH the Luhai has that space in front which IMO has enough room for at least two VLS modules of the kind used on the 054A. An SD-10-based quad pack would be a massive force multiplier for this ship.

My hope is that by 2020 the PLAN will be down to 056's, 054/A's and 052B/C/D's. And TBH they should retire the 051C's and Sov's early.
 
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