052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Frankly I don't find anything that say Chinese Characteristic like what Chinaguy had said. What they mean was that the Chinese had make use of technologies learned from overseas and combined with what China's requirement. If he would bend even that simple sentense to proof of Chinese Characteristic... then I really have nothing to say.

All nations in the world do that, they don't just buy one system and thats it... they do some modification of that system to suits their own doctrine, training, requirement. Like the F-15 that Singapore flew is different from the F-15 US pilots flew, and the La fayett class frigates that Singapore had is totally different from the La fayett class frigates the the French Navy is using, simple as that.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

rhino123 said:

Frankly I don't find anything that say Chinese Characteristic like what Chinaguy had said. What they mean was that the Chinese had make use of technologies learned from overseas and combined with what China's requirement. If he would bend even that simple sentense to proof of Chinese Characteristic... then I really have nothing to say.

All nations in the world do that, they don't just buy one system and thats it... they do some modification of that system to suits their own doctrine, training, requirement. Like the F-15 that Singapore flew is different from the F-15 US pilots flew, and the La fayett class frigates that Singapore had is totally different from the La fayett class frigates the the French Navy is using, simple as that.

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Not the Arabs and Africans, they buy it as long as they get a kickback from the deal.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

jackliu said:

Not the Arabs and Africans, they buy it as long as they get a kickback from the deal.

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i think that is a gross generalisation even untrue and many would find that offensive

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

ChinaGuy said:

Here, this is national characteristics:

. It shouldn't take any imagination to understand that means Chinese Characteristics. There is a strong element of Chinese Characteristics in everything China do. So people should get used to the idea. Specifically, Chinese Characteristics denote Chinese innovations. All Chinese processes, designs, and systems have these innovations. In other words, they have something that you don't. For instance, gongs with Chinese Characteristics can be quite deadly (deadly enough to elicit a potential nuclear response), while gongs in other countries maybe quite useless because they lack the essential Chinese characteristics.

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Seriously dude. You can bend whatever you want. What the passage said was simply that the Chinese built from the foundation of what overseas persons had done on the radar combined with what the Chinese required and needs. That is simply that. There is no Chinese Characteristics or what. And there are no strong elements (whatever that is) in what China do... and I challenge you, what the hell is a Chinese Characteristics? A design built in China means it had CHinese characteristics? How shallow can that be? And this is science we are talking about... or maths or whatever you wish to call it. And for your gongs example (which is pretty dumb if you ask me) is pretty useful at the time when the chinese are using it (during WWII and Korea war), if you want to know more, please read the history. There is no Chinese characteristics, or propaganda, it is just built out of necessity.

Which if you put that context into the supposedly 国情wordings, it also means the needs and requirement of the Chinese... which was build in foundation with the doctrines, training, environment and the such and these are unique, which is the same as many nations. Like what I had mentioned before... the La Fayette frigates operated by Singapore is totally different from the La Fayette frigates operated by French. And that had nothing to do with "Singapore Characteristic" it is simply born out of Singapore's needs and her environment, training and the such.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:

i think that is a gross generalisation even untrue and many would find that offensive

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Most African countries and major weapons importers in the ME (SA, Bahrein, Qatar, UAE) are way more corrupted than China but simply get less press coverage for obvious reason. Don't forget India and Taiwan too.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

rhino123 said:

the La Fayette frigates operated by Singapore is totally different from the La Fayette frigates operated by French. And that had nothing to do with "Singapore Characteristic" it is simply born out of Singapore's needs and her environment, training and the such.

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Singapore don't know how to make ships. So having Singapore characteristics on that ship is not possible. Practically no one will dispute that ship has French characteristics. Likewise it is not logical to dispute Chinese characteristic on Chinese made ships. Given that the precise nature of the Chinese characteristics on their ships is unknown, those represents significant risks facing foreign navies because those characteristics could give the Chinese an unexpected advantage like the gongs did in the past encounter.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

ChinaGuy said:

Singapore don't know how to make ships. So having Singapore characteristics on that ship is not possible. Practically no one will dispute that ship has French characteristics. Likewise it is not logical to dispute Chinese characteristic on Chinese made ships. Given that the precise nature of the Chinese characteristics on their ships is unknown, those represents significant risks facing foreign navies because those characteristics could give the Chinese an unexpected advantage like the gongs did in the past encounter.

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Didn't TPHuang warn you about your obsssession with 'china characteristics'? you need to drop it dude.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Alright, I will just officially put out there that if I see ChinaGuy talk about Chinese characteristics anymore in this thread or deliberately breaking up Chinese characteristics in other threads, the post will be deleted.

ChinaGuy, please look at this as a warning that you have very few straws left to respect the rules of this forum.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

ChinaGuy said:

The documents says the radar has Chinese characteristics. Won't that upset people ?

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Actually I have a hard time to understand the Chinese characteristics part. it is in the context of using GaAs over Si (probably referring to SiGe) based modules, and how China should pick GaAs. Well, pretty much all T/R modules in AESA are using GaAs, and it's the established technology since the 1970s. (well, now moving to GaN now. But that was 1990s) Perhaps SiGe was a hot topic back in 1994, and that remark was target at people in the Chinese radar circles that tries to leap to SiGe. Good thing they didn't, SiGe LDMOS is okay for commercial basestations, but turns out not so good for radars.

Also, take the RCS target detection at such and such range with a grain of salt. It's just a marketing term.... reality if far more complicated.

Some Background on this tppic:

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

new generatioN OF AESA adapted GaN MMIC ,rather than GaAs.according to australiaairpower.com,Ga N offer better Rf bandwide over GaAs.
about 2~3 year ago, Chinese technical magazine article about GaN was posted on the web site.according to past issue of kanwa,japanese engineer suspected that 052C uses hybrid circuit rather than full MMIC,that could explain her large size.but again,this is just a speculation.