052/052B Class Destroyers

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Just look at the picture, where would they put the extra 16 VLS cells at the front? The only way so many cells will fit in the bow is if you took out the main gun.

I also don't understand what you are saying, the rear VLS already takes up the space the YJ62s took up on the 052C.

At 64 cells (and significantly bigger than western standard cells), the 052D is already punching way above it's weight in terms of armaments.

No what I'm saying is could they not have kept the 48 VLS configuration from the Type 052C and just installed a 32 VLS in the back in place of the anti ship missile launchers?
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

i dont think so. i believe aft superstructure was shortened a bit, while middle superstructure was moved forward quite a bit to gain this space for VLS. with the slightly shorter aft superstructure and new hangar, there is no space whatsoever for the 12 aft cells that were installed on 052c.

At best, what one could have done - and what isn't necessarily such a bad proposition - is to leave the front cells the same as on 052c - so 36 cold launched hq9. and put 32 multipurpose cells aft.
 

jackliu

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

This close? I hope whoever took this shot has more than just this.

25172013333a27f37c35316.jpg

That new turret is HUGE, and that Type 730 CIWS does not look to have any sensors on it for whatever reasons.
 

Lion

Senior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

The missile cell doesn t look as big as we expected.. I dont think quarter pack is possible unless the missile is dirt slim.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

This close? I hope whoever took this shot has more than just this.

25172013333a27f37c35316.jpg
Very, very nice. Best view of the forward VLS yet.

From GT over at CDF. Guess we can now confirm 64 cells!

1348042646_31922.jpg

And there is the aft 64 cell VLS installation. Outstanding.

We'll see more in due time, but this is looking very much like the real thing with respect to longer term PLAN major escort and multi-role DDGs. I wonder how many they will build in total...6? 8? 12? If they have a mind to build 3 or more carriers, then I would make sure I had twelve of these babies.
 

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

No. The walls are at the correct distance. In fact they are further away from the missiles than the walls of the cells containing the missiles. The Chinese missiles are designed to go straight up, and the walls are not relevant.
What in the world are you talking about? The missile cell walls are designed to withstand high temperatures. The walls of the hull are not, including the paint on the walls. The very close proximity of the rear wall is clearly a compromise due to the limited deck space in the back. You will probably see long term damage to that wall with sustained launches.

like i've shown in one of the previous posts, using dimensions of sylver modules - 3,3 meter long container with exhaust chamber at the bottom should allow for 3,1 meter long missiles. That is, coincidentally, length of VL mica and also future sea ceptor. While sea ceptor is credited with 25 km range, VL Mica is usually cited to have 20 km range. (MBDA's site actually says over 20 km for large planes, 20 km for helicopters, 15-20 for fighters, 15 km for subsonic missiles and 10 km for supersonic missiles.)

That of course assumes incoming missiles or aircraft manouver a lot. One could also fire several antimissile rounds covering one area, so at least some of them would have to manouver less when intercepting and thus reach bigger distances. Still, we are obviously not talking about ESSM class range/endurange performance which could probably intercept any sort of target out to the horizon. Even in the best case scenario, against a wildly manouvering target, i don't expect even Sea Ceptor (or future chinese missile) to do over 20 km.

And like I mentioned on CDF, i don't believe 052d will ever carry hq16 in its current form, without a new, active, seeker. Actually, even if such a variant is developed, and there is the small missile available for quad packing - there is little sense to put hq16 in the mix as well. only in case there is no small missile developed/ready, i could imagine some active seeking hq16 variant be a part of 052d's armament.
It should be noted that PLAN's need for a MR SAM is not as evident as that of the USN and RN. Their long range missiles, the SM-2 and Aster-30, respectively, have high arcing launch profiles that result in a significant blind spot (minimum range) that these missiles cannot cover, which the ESSM and Aster-15 do. The HQ-9 has a much more depressed launch profile, meaning its minimum range is much less than that of either of the other two missiles. If you look at launch videos of both the ESSM and the HQ-9 their initial trajectories are very similar to each other, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if their minimum ranges are also very similar. So I agree a MR SAM that cannot be quad-packed has pretty much zero value to the 052C/D. My personal vote for a MR SAM again is for a VL, boosted PL-12 with folding fins.
 
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ChinaGuy

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

The missile cell walls are designed to withstand high temperatures.

So are the deck, and the cell lids. They have demonstrated plenty that they can make panels and surfaces that can withstand missile exhaust. You just want to nitpick because they build their ships with Chinese characteristics.
 

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

So are the deck, and the cell lids. They have demonstrated plenty that they can make panels and surfaces that can withstand missile exhaust. You just want to nitpick because they build their ships with Chinese characteristics.
WTH is the "Chinese characteristic" in this scenario, exactly??? Scorched paint? I'm not sure if you are being serious here or just trying to troll, but TBH many of your posts are dramatically outside the realm of common sense and reside squarely in the realm of the surreal, just saying.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

That new turret is HUGE, and that Type 730 CIWS does not look to have any sensors on it for whatever reasons.

I think it could be perspective making it look bigger.

And there are no sensors on the ciws when it's launched, like previous DDGs from JNCX
 
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