052/052B Class Destroyers

Re: DDG 052C Thread

why do these articles still get posted? We've discussed a long ago that this kvant connection is overstated. Yes, there will always be posts on Chinese bbs saying that the radar on 052C on PESA or that they were kvant copies, but that's not true.

Click to expand...

Based on what BTW? Meaning that the Ukrainian participation is not true? The PESA/AESA issue is to my konowlidge mostly explained on inturperations of the physical structure of the radar but is there really some more realible source or reference which states it as well that it's "all chinese" eg. no Ukrainian participation?

Re: DDG 052C Thread

Gollevainen said:

Based on what BTW? Meaning that the Ukrainian participation is not true? The PESA/AESA issue is to my konowlidge mostly explained on inturperations of the physical structure of the radar but is there really some more realible source or reference which states it as well that it's "all chinese" eg. no Ukrainian participation?

Click to expand...

See, I wouldn't have a problem if it says its just saying there were some cooperation between kvant and 14th institute. But I see an article (likes this) that makes the same claim about 052C every two months posted by a random poster. There are that many people trying to make up stuff on Chinese military bbs. Then, that kind of articles get spread by people like Maozedong and it suddenly starts to gain traction. It annoys me to no end.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

yeas you are right it's always hard to tell what is true and what is wrong from solely internet based articles and claims. Thus I asked what exactly where the arguments which "prooved" this one being wrong...

Re: DDG 052C Thread

Gollevainen said:

yeas you are right it's always hard to tell what is true and what is wrong from solely internet based articles and claims. Thus I asked what exactly where the arguments which "prooved" this one being wrong...

Click to expand...

You totally missed the point of my original post. I was telling him to stop posting bs articles from Chinese bbs.

I can't say they had no cooperations with kvant. All Chinese reports indicate that the radar is developed by 14th institute.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

Kvant has already denied this. Besides, the 052C was already on the water in 2004 when China first got a Kvant for its trials.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

Isen't Kvant the name of the firm? To my knowlidge the sole "Kvant" named thing that even remotely touches this field is the projected Kvant SAM from Soviet Union which preceeded the RiF (SA-N-6).

The radars are most likely designed by the 14th institute. But that doesen't rule out that the Ukraininan firm did give development aid or that the radar is based on something that the Kvant had development earlier.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

Unlikely. The Kvant I remembered what the Chinese allegedly obtained is supposedly for an early warning air search radar on the ground, sort of with an anti-stealth theme. That supposes use of long frequency radar waves. That's a totally different banana from a SAM search and fire control radar with missile guidance functions, and this kind of functionality requires higher frequencies, beam shaping and other precision work.

The connection to Kvant is tenous at best because it is based on two things, first the 052C radar is an AESA, and two, that Kvant is working on an AESA based early warning air search system. The Ukrainian connection is established because the ship is using gas turbines from the Ukraine the logic goes, why not the radar too? The problem with that is the 052C radar is operational, while the other is in an experimental stage.

Given the analogous AEGIS/S300/Patriot functionality of the Type 346 radar, its inspirations should be elsewhere. I suggest looking at the Aegis, Patriot and the S300.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

If the Kvant connection is minimal, then what is the 052C radar technology based from? I really have hard time too see how PLAN able to pull off a phased-array radar comparable to the Aegis system without receiving any outside assistance.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

We have to define 'outside assistance'. Lots of technology is open source today. Is it outside assistance if chinese engineers studied and worked abroad and used that knowledge to help build something in china? Is it outside assistance if foreign engineers were brought to build something? It's certainly assistance if there were projects where chinese and foreign engineering bureaus worked together on certain components, perhaps even a decade ago and then the resulting knowledge was used in the new projects... Anything is possible.

Also, 052c radar being comparable to spy radars - comparable how? In so much that they're both phased arrays? We have absolutely no knowledge if chinese radar is better or worse, so any comparison can be done only on very superficial levels.

Re: DDG 052C Thread

kw64 said:

If the Kvant connection is minimal, then what is the 052C radar technology based from? I really have hard time too see how PLAN able to pull off a phased-array radar comparable to the Aegis system without receiving any outside assistance.

Click to expand...

why not? Have the Russians/Ukrainians developed any kind of multi-functional naval AESA radar? If they haven't, then why would China get help from them?

Did the Americans need assistance to develop their first MFR?

If not, then why can't the Chinese do it?