052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Totoro said:

as far as i know, spy-1 radar cant illuminate for standard and sparrow missiles. they work in S band, too imprecise for targeting. that is why Ticos/burkes/kongos/sejong etc have dedicated x band illuminators.

There are then ships like De Zeven class and similar, which instead of S band Spy radars and apg62 x band illuminators use a combination of x band APARs for targeting and illumination and L band long range EW radar.

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This. The (traditional) band spread goes from X->C->S->L->UHF->VHF, so radar combos are usually going to be S-band + X-band or L-band + X-band, with the S- or L-band being used for longer range volume search and X-band for fire control-quality tracks and horizon search. Additional radars in the UHF range would be "early warning radars" like the yagis on the 052C which provide general "early warning" of approaching aircraft but couldn't really tell you jack else about them; they are good for stealth aircraft though.

If the 052D is based mostly or entirely on the hull of the 052C, we are probably looking at 6+2 or 8+2 VLS modules for a total of either 64 or 80 tubes. Add 8 more for slant-launched ASCM's, and you've got up to 88 missile tubes. For a ship that will probably be in the 8,000 ton range that is fairly impressive. The AB has only 96 tubes and it is 9,200 tons; that's roughly 11.0 tubes/ton vs AB's 10.4 tubes/ton.

The PLAN needs to work on quad-packable medium range air defense missiles like the ESSM. This development would obviously also filter down to the 054A, which with a complement of 8 CY-X missiles and 24 leftover tubes, would still make for 72 quad-packed air defense missiles. If the 054A has the depth, it could sub in long range missiles in say 16 more tubes, giving it a complement of something like 32 MR air defense missiles, 16 LR air defense missiles, and 8 VLA-type missiles. That would be a massive force multiplier for the entire PLAN.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Do you guys think the new ship will have one of those single barreled automated 30mm cannon on it's sides like the type 056.

Would it be better if she had those, and replace the fore and aft gun CIWS with missile CIWS?

I heard missile CIWS is better against supersonic compared to subsonic missiles due to their infrared guidance method.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Do you guys think the new ships will have one of those single barreled automated 30mm cannon on it's sides like the type 056? Might be useful against small hostile boats and other small/lower threat targets, as it may be too wasteful to open up the CIWS against them.

Would it be better if she had those, and replace the fore and aft gun CIWS with missile CIWS?

I heard missile CIWS is better against supersonic compared to subsonic missiles due to their infrared guidance method.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

tphuang said:

btw, I'm saying this as someone who wishes they can go faster, but it seems like the evidence is counter to it. Here are the latest photos from yesterday.

From what I can tell, this is the third one yet to be painted 150.

This is the 5th one by itself

Here are 4 and 6 next to each other.

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I am lost with the counts .... please someone assist me with the correct numbers from below.

2-052C (170-171) + 6 new 052Cs (Total 8-052C) + 2 new 052Ds

OR

2-052C (170-171) + 4 new 052Cs (Total 6-052C) + 2 new 052Ds.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

the latter. with an addenum that so far there is evidence that 4, not just 2, new 052d are being built.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Totoro said:

the latter. with an addenum that so far there is evidence that 4, not just 2, new 052d are being built.

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err......from latest reports and images shown isnt it.......

2 original 052C's +4 new 052C's.....followed by 3 other new ships possibly 052D ....ie there are 9 in total....this can be verified by looking into other resources on the subject.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

always thought there is another pair after these new ones, not just that solitary one there's photographic proof of. okay then, 3 more if you will.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Totoro said:

always thought there is another pair after these new ones, not just that solitary one there's photographic proof of. okay then, 3 more if you will.

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....they just seem to keep popping out of those sheds, sometimes appearing to be launched with still a lot of work to be done, just so another one can be laid down behind!

Does anyone know if these ships are being made around the clock in shifts?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

no_name said:

Do you guys think the new ships will have one of those single barreled automated 30mm cannon on it's sides like the type 056? Might be useful against small hostile boats and other small/lower threat targets, as it may be too wasteful to open up the CIWS against them.

Would it be better if she had those, and replace the fore and aft gun CIWS with missile CIWS?

I heard missile CIWS is better against supersonic compared to subsonic missiles due to their infrared guidance method.

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I think it would make a lot of sense. Gun CIWS doesn't seem suited for small targets that get up close. I know some people will argue that one would never let such a small target like a hostile speed boat get that up close to begin with. But when planning for the unthinkable, I believe a gun CIWS doesn't have the ability to aim that close and low. So those automated 30mm cannons if installed on the port and starboard sides would work real well.

Going back to the purpose of CIWS which is to primarily defend against incoming anti-ship missiles, a missile CIWS would cover the limitations of a gun CIWS. So if the CN feels their version of RIM is reliant enough, then it makes sense.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

joshuatree said:

I think it would make a lot of sense. Gun CIWS doesn't seem suited for small targets that get up close. I know some people will argue that one would never let such a small target like a hostile speed boat get that up close to begin with. But when planning for the unthinkable, I believe a gun CIWS doesn't have the ability to aim that close and low. So those automated 30mm cannons if installed on the port and starboard sides would work real well.

Going back to the purpose of CIWS which is to primarily defend against incoming anti-ship missiles, a missile CIWS would cover the limitations of a gun CIWS. So if the CN feels their version of RIM is reliant enough, then it makes sense.

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Good point.............the RN also has found having 30mm guns to supplement CIWS useful.......as when destroying Somali pirate boats!