asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Why does it have VLS on the back and where is the SMART-L style radar?
Why does it have VLS on the back and where is the SMART-L style radar?
052/052B Class Destroyers
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Rear vls is expected, the presence of a sino smart l is less so. but at the end of the day it's a CGI, we'll see in due time what 052D is really like.
Rear vls is expected, the presence of a sino smart l is less so. but at the end of the day it's a CGI, we'll see in due time what 052D is really like.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Although the overall design looks like Type 052C the main changes are systems which are operated, we will have to wait a little before we see a bigger DDG or Cruiser from China, the 10,000+ ton Cruiser will show up soon enough because if you want to travel at 30 knots through a storm and high waves escorting a carrier task force a 10,000 ton cruiser is invaluable a ship of that size can take the roll and movements in its ease I believe the Arleigh Burke is amazing for such a task and any global ship needs that kind of heavy tonnage
Maybe it will even have a dual hanger who knows but right now all eyes are on this Type 052D
Although the overall design looks like Type 052C the main changes are systems which are operated, we will have to wait a little before we see a bigger DDG or Cruiser from China, the 10,000+ ton Cruiser will show up soon enough because if you want to travel at 30 knots through a storm and high waves escorting a carrier task force a 10,000 ton cruiser is invaluable a ship of that size can take the roll and movements in its ease I believe the Arleigh Burke is amazing for such a task and any global ship needs that kind of heavy tonnage
Maybe it will even have a dual hanger who knows but right now all eyes are on this Type 052D
steve_rolfe
Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
If 052D does appear with rear VLS......that is seriously going to be one well armed destroyer!
The Chinese do seem to have a very good PLAN (get it..plan...oh never mind
) at the moment of rapidly updating their naval forces during the world recession, while other nations ie the US are dithering whether to cut their Navy soon by losing 7 Ticonderoga cruisers.
Chinese military enthusiasts on the web, are enthusing there's even better to come in a few years time after the type 052D ie the type 055 which if realised to be true, is going to be larger, and built on a new hull design.
Goes to show you what a country can do when it has a shed load of money, doesnt it?
'Asif' do you think our goverment will ever get around to fully kitting out our type 45 destroyers with Harpoons and Tomahawks.....so far only a couple of Phalanx's have been added to the original kit?
If 052D does appear with rear VLS......that is seriously going to be one well armed destroyer!
The Chinese do seem to have a very good PLAN (get it..plan...oh never mind
) at the moment of rapidly updating their naval forces during the world recession, while other nations ie the US are dithering whether to cut their Navy soon by losing 7 Ticonderoga cruisers.Chinese military enthusiasts on the web, are enthusing there's even better to come in a few years time after the type 052D ie the type 055 which if realised to be true, is going to be larger, and built on a new hull design.
Goes to show you what a country can do when it has a shed load of money, doesnt it?
'Asif' do you think our goverment will ever get around to fully kitting out our type 45 destroyers with Harpoons and Tomahawks.....so far only a couple of Phalanx's have been added to the original kit?
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Well considering 052C is equipped with rear VLS cells, I'd expect 052D to have them in some number as well, especially given rumours how 052D may have a stretched or widened hull somewhat.
Well considering 052C is equipped with rear VLS cells, I'd expect 052D to have them in some number as well, especially given rumours how 052D may have a stretched or widened hull somewhat.
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
seeing the new pic i am thinking it is less and less likely the new hulls will be wider. all the other guesstimations from before were based on something like two blurry, tiny images which are by far not enough for us to be sure if the measurements were correct.
Rear VLS, if present on 052d, is likely to be pretty small. First off, it cant be right after the LW radar, no ship has such a design. observe how far away from the radar is rear VLS on 052c. And on 052d it will have to be even a bit closer (some 4-5 meters) than that because of the centrally positioned hangar and lifeboats on the side of the hangar. I actually wouldnt be surprised if we dont see rear VLS at all. That being said, i also wouldn't be surprised if there is a small VLS aft. But we're talking just a module or two, at best.
By far the biggest point of interest for me is what sort of VLS we will see. I predict 3 possibilities:
A) revolver-like VLS for hq9 only, like on 052c
B) square VLS like on 054a, but longer - for carrying HQ16/b, some with boosters.
C) enlarged square VLS, some cells carrying hq9 (probably a new version for hot launch), others carrying different missiles like hq16 or LACM or whatever.
Also - why move the boats to the side of hangar? what will come in their place??? ciws that have been rearranged? Illuminators for hq16a? If the hull is larger than larger/rearanged exhaust might come there but i doubt that...
seeing the new pic i am thinking it is less and less likely the new hulls will be wider. all the other guesstimations from before were based on something like two blurry, tiny images which are by far not enough for us to be sure if the measurements were correct.
Rear VLS, if present on 052d, is likely to be pretty small. First off, it cant be right after the LW radar, no ship has such a design. observe how far away from the radar is rear VLS on 052c. And on 052d it will have to be even a bit closer (some 4-5 meters) than that because of the centrally positioned hangar and lifeboats on the side of the hangar. I actually wouldnt be surprised if we dont see rear VLS at all. That being said, i also wouldn't be surprised if there is a small VLS aft. But we're talking just a module or two, at best.
By far the biggest point of interest for me is what sort of VLS we will see. I predict 3 possibilities:
A) revolver-like VLS for hq9 only, like on 052c
B) square VLS like on 054a, but longer - for carrying HQ16/b, some with boosters.
C) enlarged square VLS, some cells carrying hq9 (probably a new version for hot launch), others carrying different missiles like hq16 or LACM or whatever.
Also - why move the boats to the side of hangar? what will come in their place??? ciws that have been rearranged? Illuminators for hq16a? If the hull is larger than larger/rearanged exhaust might come there but i doubt that...
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
I think the Cruiser you are referring to is the Type 058 which is the 10,000+ ton class
Type 45 DDG is one of the worlds best air defence destroyers, a true dedicated surface Vessal which can provide air defence to itself, it's escorting ships and a landmark all at the same time, it does have a severe handicap in that it doesn't have any offensive capability but looking at the systems on the Type 26 FFGS and it's tonnage it clear that Type 45 will not operate on its own, it will provide the defence and the FFGs will provide he offensive none will operate on their own, so in that aspect it's hard to see if they will fit any offensive capabilitys to the Type 45 when Astute Class SSNs will provide the Tomahawk
But if the situation changes and it becomes a requirement then Type 45 can be refitted to carry offensive weapons which is good foresight on part of the Royal Navy, but I don't see hat happening anytime soon, just hope they don't cut the 13 x Type 26 FFGs orders
If 052D does appear with rear VLS......that is seriously going to be one well armed destroyer!
The Chinese do seem to have a very good PLAN (get it..plan...oh never mind
Chinese military enthusiasts on the web, are enthusing there's even better to come in a few years time after the type 052D ie the type 055 which if realised to be true, is going to be larger, and built on a new hull design.
Goes to show you what a country can do when it has a shed load of money, doesnt it?
'Asif' do you think our goverment will ever get around to fully kitting out our type 45 destroyers with Harpoons and Tomahawks.....so far only a couple of Phalanx's have been added to the original kit?
I think the Cruiser you are referring to is the Type 058 which is the 10,000+ ton class
Type 45 DDG is one of the worlds best air defence destroyers, a true dedicated surface Vessal which can provide air defence to itself, it's escorting ships and a landmark all at the same time, it does have a severe handicap in that it doesn't have any offensive capability but looking at the systems on the Type 26 FFGS and it's tonnage it clear that Type 45 will not operate on its own, it will provide the defence and the FFGs will provide he offensive none will operate on their own, so in that aspect it's hard to see if they will fit any offensive capabilitys to the Type 45 when Astute Class SSNs will provide the Tomahawk
But if the situation changes and it becomes a requirement then Type 45 can be refitted to carry offensive weapons which is good foresight on part of the Royal Navy, but I don't see hat happening anytime soon, just hope they don't cut the 13 x Type 26 FFGs orders
plawolf
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Well I am doubtful that they would widen the hull because they would pretty much force a redesign of the entire ship, and as I said before, if you are doing that, it would probably be easier and more efficient to just start from scratch.
I suspect that the rumors for widened hull stem largely from wishful thinking, whereby fans think that if they make the hull wider, they might be able to squeeze in an extra row of VLS cells at the front of the ship.
I do, however, see a possibility that they might lengthen the hull, as that would be a far more simple redesign because of the ship's existing modular design. In the most crudest sense, all they would need to do is add in another small module or make a few existing ones longer and redistribute internal spaces and layouts accordingly.
Now, looking at the 052C design, there are a few obvious areas they can stretch the ship to maximize VLS cell carrying potential. The most obvious would be the bow section, and that's pretty self explanatory. They can also stretch the design amidships, either just after the smoke stack to open enough room to place the AShM launchers there, thus freeing up the area immediately in front of the hanger for more VLS cells there, or they could move the rear VLS from partway in the hanger to where the YJ62s are on the 052C to both fit in more VLS and free up the hanger for two helos (in which case, they might as well replace the rear Type 730 with a FL3000 launcher as that will reduce the deck penetration as well as structural buttressing needed to withstand the recoil from the '730 firing. Alternatively, they could stretch the design just in front of the hanger, keep the existing VLS positioning and add more VLS cells in front of hanger to form a 'T' shaped VLS battery.
Internally, stretching the design amidships (either configuration) could allow for bigger, or just more engines to be installed to maintain or even improve the ship's power and speed over the 052C, it could also allow more fuel and provisions to be carried or just give the crews bigger quarters etc.
Stretching the design would obviously yield a lot of benefits, but it would make the ship more expensive and could require some additional testing and slow production a little, so there is a good chance the PLAN would just opt to keep the existing hull and just add new stuff into them.
There are merits and drawbacks to either choice, so I think we will just have to be patient to see which the PLAN has opted for.
I do hope some of the 052C+s will still be there when the 052D is launched, as that will give us instant answers to the question of whether they have widened or lengthened the hull.
Well I am doubtful that they would widen the hull because they would pretty much force a redesign of the entire ship, and as I said before, if you are doing that, it would probably be easier and more efficient to just start from scratch.
I suspect that the rumors for widened hull stem largely from wishful thinking, whereby fans think that if they make the hull wider, they might be able to squeeze in an extra row of VLS cells at the front of the ship.
I do, however, see a possibility that they might lengthen the hull, as that would be a far more simple redesign because of the ship's existing modular design. In the most crudest sense, all they would need to do is add in another small module or make a few existing ones longer and redistribute internal spaces and layouts accordingly.
Now, looking at the 052C design, there are a few obvious areas they can stretch the ship to maximize VLS cell carrying potential. The most obvious would be the bow section, and that's pretty self explanatory. They can also stretch the design amidships, either just after the smoke stack to open enough room to place the AShM launchers there, thus freeing up the area immediately in front of the hanger for more VLS cells there, or they could move the rear VLS from partway in the hanger to where the YJ62s are on the 052C to both fit in more VLS and free up the hanger for two helos (in which case, they might as well replace the rear Type 730 with a FL3000 launcher as that will reduce the deck penetration as well as structural buttressing needed to withstand the recoil from the '730 firing. Alternatively, they could stretch the design just in front of the hanger, keep the existing VLS positioning and add more VLS cells in front of hanger to form a 'T' shaped VLS battery.
Internally, stretching the design amidships (either configuration) could allow for bigger, or just more engines to be installed to maintain or even improve the ship's power and speed over the 052C, it could also allow more fuel and provisions to be carried or just give the crews bigger quarters etc.
Stretching the design would obviously yield a lot of benefits, but it would make the ship more expensive and could require some additional testing and slow production a little, so there is a good chance the PLAN would just opt to keep the existing hull and just add new stuff into them.
There are merits and drawbacks to either choice, so I think we will just have to be patient to see which the PLAN has opted for.
I do hope some of the 052C+s will still be there when the 052D is launched, as that will give us instant answers to the question of whether they have widened or lengthened the hull.
Engineer
Major
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
I also think that the reduced number of frontal windows from 7 to 5 to compensate for the larger APAR indicates there is no stretch width wise. If no change is made to the hull, this may actually be the 052C+ that was talked about rather than a 052D.
I also think that the reduced number of frontal windows from 7 to 5 to compensate for the larger APAR indicates there is no stretch width wise. If no change is made to the hull, this may actually be the 052C+ that was talked about rather than a 052D.