052/052B Class Destroyers

asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

antiterror13 said:
10 years ago China hardly had any supercomputer, and now what ?, No. 5 and 10, even 2 years ago No 1 slot. Number of Chinese supercomputers is just below the US. 5 years ago the British had the most supercomputer after the US and now ?

Top 500 supercomputers
US : 252
China : 68
Japan : 35
The UK : 25

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My point is, people can learn fast :)
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there is one thing having a supercomputer and all that but certain things just come with time

Does any Chinese companys make GC systems same as Agilent? is there any Chinese company which can make AA same as Jena? How about Single Molecule hardware and nanosecond cameras? ultra efficient high throughput laser source better than Americans?

I work in the Scientific field, I did PhD, published a paper in the National Academy of Sciences first author, I know what Western countrys can make, and China hasnt reached that level yet, infact nowhere near in certain areas

does Chinese 3D search radar have same seperation for enviroment clutter, background noise and signal to noise ratio? Answer is no

Chinese Atomic absoprtion can do parts per million and I am yet to see one that can do parts per billion, which is very easy to get in UK

Type 052C is good but its not world class and certainly in ECM, software, electronics, computing power, processing etc etc is does not match Type 45

Type 45 can see a snooker ball thrown in the air from 20km!!

I have alot of respect for China and its achivements but we still need to remain realistic
 
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A

antiterror13

Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

asif iqbal said:
there is one thing having a supercomputer and all that but certain things just come with time

Does any Chinese companys make GC systems same as Agilent? is there any Chinese company which can make AA same as Jena? How about Single Molecule hardware and nanosecond cameras? ultra efficient high throughput laser source better than Americans?

I work in the Scientific field, I did PhD, published a paper in the National Academy of Sciences first author, I know what Western countrys can make, and China hasnt reached that level yet, infact nowhere near in certain areas

does Chinese 3D search radar have same seperation for enviroment clutter, background noise and signal to noise ratio? Answer is no

Chinese Atomic absoprtion can do parts per million and I am yet to see one that can do parts per billion, which is very easy to get in UK

Type 052C is good but its not world class and certainly in ECM, software, electronics, computing power, processing etc etc is does not match Type 45

Type 45 can see a snooker ball thrown in the air from 20km!!

I have alot of respect for China and its achivements but we still need to remain realistic
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Most of you just said are correct. That's exactly what people said about supercomputer, space, GPS, etc 10-15 years ago (many impossible things for China to achieve). I think you are confusing yourself of the capabilities of the British and the West (read: the US) :)

you will be surprised in 10 years time .... :)
 
F

Franklin

Captain
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I agree with asif iqbal China has come a long way but China's scientific and technological capabilities when compared to those of the advanced nations of the world may still lag 10 to 15 year's behind or more and has a long way to go. There maybe area's in science and technology where China can match or even exceed those of the more advanced nations but those are very far and few in between.

The new improved "Type 052D" has 64 instead of 48 VLS launchers the question is what are they going to use those 16 extra launchers for. They could simply put 16 HQQ-9 SAM missile's in them or they could move some of the anti-ship, land attack and anti-sub missile's into those VLS. If the latter is the case then that would free up a lot of space on the deck that could be used to place other systems like FL-3000N to give the ship extra protection or place a second large radar mast so that a lot of those sensors and nobbes that we see across the deck of Type 052C could be concentrated in the new mast given the ship a more modern look and make the design more stealthy. It could also help improve the ship's radar coverage.
 
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Dizasta1

Dizasta1

Senior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

How many Type-052Ds is the Chinese Navy planning to field? If the current planned build for Type-052Cs was limited, then why build eight ships instead of just building two and moving on to build a larger number of 052Ds??
 
Mysterre

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Dizasta1 said:
How many Type-052Ds is the Chinese Navy planning to field? If the current planned build for Type-052Cs was limited, then why build eight ships instead of just building two and moving on to build a larger number of 052Ds??
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Probably because that design is not ready and they need something right now to provide carrier escort.
 
SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

jobjed said:
So basically, to simplify, it has an area air defence capability. We have no idea what the specs of the 052C's and the 45's radar are but it's reasonable to assume they both 'can see for hundreds of kilometres in land, sea and air' as can hundreds of other radars in the world. In terms of air defence, the 45 has 36 long range missiles and 12 short while the 052C has 48 long and no short; overall, the 052C has a longer engagement distance although that barely matters. It seems to me the 45 has no distinctive advantage over the 052C that we know about, although we barely know anything about 052C electronics. The 45 does look more stealthy though, perhaps that might help.

To say the UK shipbuilding sector is cutting edge is quite inaccurate. Many of its systems on board their 45s are develop in partnership with France and Italy. No European country would be able to develop an advance navy able to compete with the US or China today without the cooperation of multiple countries. As stated by another post, the UK's defence budget just cannot handle the R&D of all the sectors of the military, the primary UK fighter the Typhoon was developed in conjunction with the rest of Europe save France. Even the UK's assault rifle was upgraded by H&K and not a domestic company.

IMHO I think it is safe to say no single European country can effectively compete with China anymore, not since 2007 when China overtook Germany's economy. However, when the Europeans actually stop arguing and design something in conjunction for once, their products are still world-class and in many cases above world-class.
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It's a shame that the world's largest shipbuilders, South Korea, China, Japan, aren't able to work together.
 
A

antiterror13

Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I do hope they don't ..... it kills the innovation and competitiveness. Let them to compete to death .. good for everybody.

Imagine if Intel and AMD were able to work together .. your computer now would be 3x more expensive and the performance would be half of now
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

antiterror13 said:
10 years ago China hardly had any supercomputer, and now what ?, No. 5 and 10, even 2 years ago No 1 slot. Number of Chinese supercomputers is just below the US. 5 years ago the British had the most supercomputer after the US and now ?

Top 500 supercomputers
US : 252
China : 68
Japan : 35
The UK : 25

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


My point is, people can learn fast :)
Click to expand...
My whole point is that just having the hardware is not necessarly the measure. Iit's what you can do with it...and that takes time to understand what you have, develop operational plans and policies for it, and then get personnel so well trained and honed in those operational procedures that it is like second nature to them.

...and that last takes time. There's no shortcut there.

In addition, having that expertise and "second nature" allows you to rapidly expand on what you have and develop new uses, and better versions quickly.
 
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Vini_Vidi_Vici

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Totally agree with Jeff. Those hardware are all American and all come from some sort of a company from the silicon valley area. The hardest part is getting the full potential out of super computers.
I have read a news article at end of last year, it was in Chinese, and it mentioned how Chinese are able to rev-up the sheer power of the supercomputers but having trouble developing software for industrial applications that can get out its full potential. It’s the same with military CS4IR systems. China lacks big software companies, especially industrial software companies. It’s very challenging to develop big and sophisticated software that is comparable to US counterpart. Even as recent as few years back, the Chinese are still using modified French and Italian systems.
China never lacks in scale except in military software development area. Lockheed alone writes for times more codes than Microsoft, every year!
From what i have observed is that in china, whenever a new software is needed for a new weapon system, an “office” or solution team is setup to develop it. It usually comprises of a professor and number of PhD and Masters students. When the project is done, they leave.
This is detrimental for the industry, if there even is one. China needs an army of software programmers and engineers serving specifically for the military industry, like those in Lockheed and Boeing. Or else, Chinese military software will continue to be backwards.
 
A

A.Man

Major
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Vini_Vidi_Vici said:
Totally agree with Jeff. Those hardware are all American and all come from some sort of a company from the silicon valley area. The hardest part is getting the full potential out of super computers.
I have read a news article at end of last year, it was in Chinese, and it mentioned how Chinese are able to rev-up the sheer power of the supercomputers but having trouble developing software for industrial applications that can get out its full potential. It’s the same with military CS4IR systems. China lacks big software companies, especially industrial software companies. It’s very challenging to develop big and sophisticated software that is comparable to US counterpart. Even as recent as few years back, the Chinese are still using modified French and Italian systems.
China never lacks in scale except in military software development area. Lockheed alone writes for times more codes than Microsoft, every year!
From what i have observed is that in china, whenever a new software is needed for a new weapon system, an “office” or solution team is setup to develop it. It usually comprises of a professor and number of PhD and Masters students. When the project is done, they leave.
This is detrimental for the industry, if there even is one. China needs an army of software programmers and engineers serving specifically for the military industry, like those in Lockheed and Boeing. Or else, Chinese military software will continue to be backwards.
Click to expand...

You just believe what you want to believe. Your source, like CNN or BBC or other biase providers, had said many times that China would have been falling many years ago. Check your fact first-China, in term of dollars, exported much more softwares than India.
 
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