Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

[Jura The idiot]

okay

I think the F-35 approach is like 22 Century, years following 2100, OK maybe the second half of this Century, I mean from automatically detecting targets through processing them to feed the head-up display in real time, but, as of now, what if some Northern Korean antiques just weren't in Mission Data Files

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(I set aside F-35 cost and schedule, there's
F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread
for it LOL)

 

[siegecrossbow]

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NEW DELHI – The ambitious $10 billion Indo-Russian program for joint development and production of fifth generation fighter aircraft, or FGFA, faces a new serious hurdle, as the Indian Air Force demands a discontinuation of the project.

Senior IAF leadership recently expressed apprehension to the Ministry of Defence, claiming the proposed FGFA program with Russia does not meet desired requirements like U.S. F-35 fighter type capabilities, disclosed a senior IAF official. That official added, that “IAF is not keen to continue with the program.”

The proposed FGFA program does not meet desired stealth and cross section features compared to a F-35 fighter, the official explained, thus major structural changes are needed that cannot be met in the existing Russian prototypes.

FGFA also does not have modular engine concept, making maintenance and serviceability of the fleet expensive and troublesome. A second service official said the modular engine concept is required for the fleet serviceability and availability of FGFA aircrafts at short notice, since it can be done by the user itself.

Russians have offered non-modular engines for FGFA and its maintenance and other relations can only be handled by the manufacturer.

Russian Embassy diplomats here were unavailable for comments.

Vaijinder K Thakur, retired IAF squadron leader and defense analyst disagreement with the Air Force assessment of capability, saying that the current Russian FGFA prototype, known as Su-57, features the AL-41F1 engine. But the production variant of FGFA would be fitted with the Product 30 engine which is 30 percent lighter, features improved thrust, and has better fuel efficiency and fewer moving parts. That results in improved reliability and 30 percent lower life-cycle cost, Thakur said.

Without having operated U.S. fighters, the IAF is hardly in a position to pronounce judgment on the comparative long-term operating costs of Russian and U.S. fighters, Thakur added.

 

[b787]

nice summary

 

[Lethe]

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Almost certainly not.

 

[ougoah]

Why do you think it is not legit?

 

[ougoah]

On closer viewing I think you are right in that the article can very well be the usual Indian media nonsense. Particularly with their usual bs of unnamed sources and zero evidence. If it were true, it wouldn't surprise me though. They would at least wait until Iz.30 before making any choices knowing how long these things can drag on with Indian leadership and bureaucracy.

Could be vested interests from US trying to derail this and get Indians to purchase F-35. Or their past experiences with Russian defense purchases which have almost all been sour. They know Russia and China are in bed together. China understands the US wants to destabilise Asia through both the eastern and western ends. So they've been screwing Russia to get them to fold which is why China is propping them up with purchasing resources at higher than post sanction market prices in RMB and gold. Even Su-35 purchases and possible others that are even more low key.

 

[Gloire_bb]

Su-57 is an utter failure compared the other 5th gen projects.

And this has a solid substance under it, isn't it?
Kinda sticky and smelly one, though.

Decision to proceed with development of 5th gen fighter is taken after appropriate defense and validation of project, as well as after certain assurance what result will perform expected tasks against expected foes with acceptable results.
For 2001 pak fa competition these expected foes are quite simple to guess.

 

[ougoah]

And this has a solid substance under it, isn't it?
Kinda sticky and smelly one, though.

Decision to proceed with development of 5th gen fighter is taken after appropriate defense and validation of project, as well as after certain assurance what result will perform expected tasks against expected foes with acceptable results.
For 2001 pak fa competition these expected foes are quite simple to guess.

I will substantiate that claim somewhat by pointing to the obvious flaws in RCS reduction. Sure I'm no expert but looking at close up photos of the surface, it is not made to the same level of detail as even the Rafale. Roughly Typhoon level skin detail. Plenty of protrusions that came from flanker parts bin. On top of that, the project has been going on for as long as F-35 and it's a far less complex project. Okay yes Russia has been suffering economically and it is not a reflection on their abilities at all. However it is a reflection on the project. They have still not delivered a completed finished product. Hundreds of F-35s are operational and F-22s production line has stopped. J-20 has just started rolling off the assembly lines in their first batches. Now add uncertain orders and thus prices, I think it's fair to say that it's the least successful 5th gen project that has received priority and funding, yet still has not delivered. Sure the fanboys can keep thinking it's a superfighter. That remains to be seen. Everything else points to a half arsed attempt.

Yeah it looks awesome and would probably dominate WRV but with small bays and likely higher RCS, calling it a "failure compared to others" is a fair response to the idiotic ramblings the guy was spewing.

 

[ougoah]

At this stage only F-22 is a truly 5th generation fighter, China has settle to deliver J-20s with 4 generation engines, F-35 is a fat, slow machine plagued with software troubles, and if true the machine has failed to deliver its potential, according to the latest reports, S-200 struck one in Syria, Israel of course denies it and claims the bird strike test made by Lockheed are crap and says one got damaged to the degree it is out of service.
What it shows is why the F-22 is not sold and why F-35 is going to be one of the worst aircraft made by the USA.

The Su-57 needs speed, because stealth is not a guarantee, without stealth F-35 is a inferior machine even to Su-35 or Rafale.

All these 4th generation fighters with better radar and software make obsolete F-35, once stealth is gone there is no change they will survive it is similar to MiG-17 and F-4 without a gun

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Why do you not take issue with all that nonsense about F-35, S-200, and how on Earth does this guy know for certain about J-20 engines. If he's talking nonsense like this, how is calling Su-57 a failure compared to the others uncalled for? It's actually more justifiable in many ways than calling F-35 a slow fat POS with electrical problems and J20 engines fourth gen. We can see Pak Fa skin and TINY bays. We don't REALLY now jack about J20 engines an F-35 ability or disability.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Is this legit?

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Its not "official", but no doubt the Indians are tired of "dinking around" with the Russians,,, the SU-57 showed a lot of promise initially, and it is a Ferrari in the sense that it is very high performance,, but has a "dinky little trunk"?? If it had better RCS, or a bigger weapons bay?? but it is rather "petite"??

that and money are no doubt the reasons the Russians have "abated" their own buy?? Its a promising airplane, but I rather doubt, being kind and sincere, that they can or will deliver on their promises,,, and as others have suggested, China has the cash to "steer" the Russians, and India knows that.

That is what 2 billion dollars for 24 airplanes is all about.