Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

kurutoga

Junior Member
Registered Member
I must have missed something. What photo are you talking about? By the "gear doors", do you mean the main landing gear? Or something else that I missed?

Yes I think he meant main landing gear door. The bulge "unopened" can only be explained as an actuator cover.

Combined with the news that the Korean KFX jet is no longer having internal weapon bays. You got to think having concealed weapon bays could be a difficult task. Maybe too much calculation is needed to save the space and modify the inlet, and maintain the performance at satisfactory levels.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
View attachment 42626

If the wingspan quoted online is accurate at 14m. Each bay is at most 1.2m wide. With expandable fins of R-77, a fixed minimum diameter of 350mm for each missile. This means each main bay cannot fit three of today's R-77s. Three R-77s side by side would be around 1.05m, giving only around 15cm for gaps between each of the three missiles and the adjacent wall clearance. Assuming even gap, this would be only less than 4cm for each gap and clearance. There's no safe way of ejecting those missiles while turning with that kind of clearance. Bay is not deep enough to double stack or orient the missiles according to fin geometry. Su-57 should have more shallow bays given the thickness of the aircraft in that section. Why the designers didn't go with a fuselage similar to LM designs is strange. Perhaps costs were such a big issue they only had enough for new avionics and electronics on a stealthified flanker with internal bays. This is all not even considering the thickness of those doors which would realistically take out those gap margins completely because they certainly cannot be inward opening or sliding doors.
I have check again on severals sites, blogs in genral 6 AAMs in the weapons bay sometimes 4 we need wait the bird is new not in service before 2 years

Weapons bays do 4.4 to 5.1 m long i think 4.6 and 0.9 or 1 m wide.
2 ejections lauchers for 300 or 700 kg weapons

But sure it is a king for the short game VWR the F-22 had an advantage better the best SC to mach 1.75 Su-57 estimated to 1.6.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Why is Russia only buy 12 units of this plane? Are there hesitation due to Russian economy or due to immaturity of technology? How many was Russia originally going to field?
 

b787

Captain
Why is Russia only buy 12 units of this plane? Are there hesitation due to Russian economy or due to immaturity of technology? How many was Russia originally going to field?
They are not going to buy 12 aircraft, that is economically illogical, however for the period 2018-2022 they will buy 12-24 aircraft due to the state of the Russian economy, lack of a proper 5th generation engine (they suppose to test Article 30 engine this year) and the fact Su-35 more or less fills the gap.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
I have check again on severals sites, blogs in genral 6 AAMs in the weapons bay sometimes 4 we need wait the bird is new not in service before 2 years

Weapons bays do 4.4 to 5.1 m long i think 4.6 and 0.9 or 1 m wide.
2 ejections lauchers for 300 or 700 kg weapons

But sure it is a king for the short game VWR the F-22 had an advantage better the best SC to mach 1.75 Su-57 estimated to 1.6.

Yes almost all non-official online "sources" claim Su-57 can store 6 total MRAAMs in it's main bays and that it has two side bays. These claims are dubious. Someone show me how it can store that much and it has side bays. Until then, I am convinced it doesn't. These sources are mostly fanboys. T-50 probably has the shallowest bays because it has a very thin fuselage where the bays are at and they didn't use the LM superstructure fuselage that J-20 and J-31 also followed. Some prideful idiots will say they copied it. Fine. But copying a better design is miles better than going with a stupid original design. Perhaps the Su-57 designers were cash strapped and heavily modified a flanker. Or perhaps they have access to superior next gen electronics that will negate the advantage of low RCS and it'll allow Su-57 to dominate WVR and fight on almost an even footing BVR, ceteris paribus.

Has IAF been allowed to examine the plane, site in it, pilot it around? Surely at this stage of the project (near completion of initial batches without final engines), such an important partner who has contributed at least $6 billion USD should be allowed to closely examine it even if the Russians aren't willing to give away the technology which is actually something the Indians are entitled to with that kind of spending. They could have bought squadrons of F-35s for that kind of money. It's too much loss to cut at this point for the Indians so they will definitely induct this plane but will threaten Russia for the technology. They will bluff and refuse to buy even one Su-57 (giving Russia potential embarrassment in that not even the closest only partner will buy this fighter) unless Russia gives up the technology. If Russia calls the bluff, India will act according to the capability of this fighter. It will be very interesting to see how it performs against Indian Rafales and Su-30mkis when they eventually get it years down the road.

Good thing China went with their own projects when it was invited to this. All those Russian and Ukrainian engineers that China managed to poach and attract decades ago have surely contributed to the incredible speed of development. If Korea abandoning internal bays is an indicator of technical difficulty and the state of the Russian fighter is as disappointing as I'm sure many of us here feel about it, it just goes to show the extreme challenges developing a fifth gen fighter poses. The confidence of China refusing to cooperate on this could have been due to Indian involvement or possessing valuable information on how LM went about with their designs. They could have shared this with Russia and built something awesome as well but was confident in being able to do it themselves. The many other partnered projects with Russia only makes this point more likely. Those areas Chinese SOEs consider themselves weak in so they cooperate. If they didn't feel confident about the selected 5th gen designs, they definitely would have partnered up with or without LM hacked data.
 

kurutoga

Junior Member
Registered Member
partner who has contributed at least $6 billion USD should be allowed to closely examine it

If I am not mistaken, IAF paid about $300 million so far. The big contract is not yet signed. For Indians, the "pie in the sky" strategy usually works. Now US is reported transferring EMALS to India which could have impacts on naval jet selection which in turn has impacts on AF jets.

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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Okay I wasn't aware of that. I thought they paid $6B in advance for this partnership to take off. That gives them a much better position to negotiate. We may even see IAF not choose this and IN abandon Mig-29K as carrier borne fighter. Some biased media sources claiming IN is not happy with Mig-29K. If they decide to go with F-35 for both IAF and IN, then we'd know just how capable the Su-57 is. I don't believe in the invincibility of Su-57 that the Russian forums claim. These same people are convinced J-20 is a copy of Mig-1.44 (a child can see the differences and all engineers could see they are vastly different to design and build) and the J-20's radar is PESA and the fighter's RCS is far greater than Su-57 HAHAHAHAHA.
 

kurutoga

Junior Member
Registered Member
Okay I wasn't aware of that. I thought they paid $6B in advance for this partnership to take off. That gives them a much better position to negotiate. We may even see IAF not choose this and IN abandon Mig-29K as carrier borne fighter. Some biased media sources claiming IN is not happy with Mig-29K. If they decide to go with F-35 for both IAF and IN, then we'd know just how capable the Su-57 is. I don't believe in the invincibility of Su-57 that the Russian forums claim. These same people are convinced J-20 is a copy of Mig-1.44 (a child can see the differences and all engineers could see they are vastly different to design and build) and the J-20's radar is PESA and the fighter's RCS is far greater than Su-57 HAHAHAHAHA.

I am sorry to pollute the thread about Su57. Indians seem quite confident about their domestic design 5th gen jet (AMCA). If that project went well, scraping Su57 is certainly an option for them. This exact situation was reported by Indian media a few weeks ago.

On the other hand, I want to give Russians the benefit of the doubt. Let's wait for official words or indirect words from India on the weapon bay.

Given the recent news, I start to think maybe no other new 5th gen jets will have a side weapon bay any more (except for F22 and J20). Side weapon bays seem to be a huge design challenge.
 
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