The War in the Ukraine

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
At least Vietnam had more people and on average far younger in 1969 than Ukraine today. Ukraine its already on its 7th mobilization and the next one will most likely include women and older people; sure, more people for the meat grinder but an untenable population drain for the country and its economy in the long term on top of the destroyed infrastructure.

Ukraine from this point on, isn't a viable country anymore, regardless of how the war goes.
I think the salvageable way to wage this war is to target military-economy targets west of the Dnieper, hit as many bridges as possible, and open the Nova Kharovka dam to widen the Dnieper, then push up the east bank. Otherwise keeping on hitting Donbass alone doesn't work because there's always going to be reinforcement.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
They got the west bank indeed, noway Russia can go back there. Kherson city is in Ukraine hands for goods, Odessa is out of reach. The Dnipro is a way larger river than all the small ones that both sides have loss many while trying to do beachhead with pontoons. Using boats to cross that river is asking to be sunk and drown. We will see how many troops Ukraine will be able to pull from that front and reach the east. Russia need to stop that flow big time and bring these mobilized in action.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member

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MortyandRick

Senior Member
Registered Member
Russia lost Russian territory, Kherson is officially Russian remember?

Are you familiar with Vietnam or Afghanistan? Killing your enemy in higher numbers means nothing if they can replace soldiers with more.
Yeah, one side is fighting not to lose against a side that has nothing to lose and has no problems to throw as many mobilizations and man power as needed and will fight to the last person.

Russia will have to change the way they fight this war and objectives. What's their plan? Put defensive positions and hope to grind down the enemy?
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Impressive spin
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Kremlin says Kherson's status as 'part of Russia' unchanged despite retreat​

The Kremlin said on Friday that Russian forces' withdrawal from Kherson would not change the status of the region, which Moscow has proclaimed part of Russia after moving to annex it from Ukraine.
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters the region's status was "fixed" and that no changes were possible.
"It is a subject of the Russian Federation - it is legally fixed and defined. There are no changes and there can be no changes," Peskov said. He said Russia did not regret announcing the annexation of Kherson and the other three regions in a triumphal ceremony in Moscow on Sept. 30.
 

baykalov

Senior Member
Registered Member
According to The Financial Times "Putin’s nuclear threats may hint at an electromagnetic pulse strike".

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Launching such a weapon over Ukraine would be lethal to Kyiv’s information warfare systems

The writer is a US Army Special Forces veteran who served in Iraq and Afghanistan and a former deputy assistant secretary of defence

So far, Russia’s threats of escalation against Ukraine have been largely interpreted as a veiled reference to the use of traditional nuclear weapons. But there is another tool which Vladimir Putin may be considering: a tactical electromagnetic pulse, or EMP, strike. These weapons — designed to create a powerful pulse of energy which short-circuits electrical equipment such as computers, generators, satellites, radios, radar receivers and even traffic lights — could disable Ukraine’s military and civilian infrastructure at a stroke and leave the country without light, heat, communications or transport.

A tactical nuclear weapon used to create an explosion would most likely be ineffective against the mobile, dispersed combination of guerrilla and conventional warfare that Ukrainians are deploying to reclaim their territory. But the use of a nuclear weapon for electromagnetic warfare is a different matter. The signature of this type of attack would not be a fireball and mushroom cloud but a weird electric blue medusa orb pulsing directly overhead, followed by silence. At that altitude, the sound will not carry.

A relatively small nuclear EMP, easily deployed at high altitude by Russia’s hypersonic Zircon cruise missiles, might not destroy any buildings or kill anybody. But it could permanently disable electrical circuits over thousands of square miles of Ukrainian territory. Virtually all the defence equipment deployed by Nato allies to Ukraine — such as radios, GPS navigation, and aerial drones — are dependent on electronics, if not for operations, then for deployment, maintenance and integration. The lingering electromagnetic effects of a strike could destroy 90 per cent of the satellites over the afflicted zone within three months. However, it is likely that Russian information operations on the ground would also be affected.

The US and its allies are by no means oblivious to the dangers of an EMP, and most military equipment has a degree of inbuilt defence against this eventuality. But a strike would create a new battlespace that negates the superiority of our information systems. We have not war-gamed this properly.

In Kherson, for instance, a tactical EMP could disable the systems that operate the region’s dams, clog highways and bridges with miles of disabled vehicles and leave the civilian population struggling for food and heat. In the aftermath of a successful EMP strike, Ukraine would have to pause fighting to restock its ruined arsenal. Putin could meanwhile rebuild and resupply his forces and seize the newly depopulated areas during a spring offensive.

What is perhaps most concerning is that Russia and Nato have such different approaches to these weapons. Under Russian military doctrine, EMP strikes are a branch of information, cyber and electronic warfare rather than nuclear warfare. This lowers the bar and may render EMPs even more tempting to Putin’s beleaguered generals.

So, what next? First, we must warn Russia that an EMP strike against Ukraine — even if it is localised — would cross the nuclear threshold and trigger a collective defence response from Nato. The unpredictable effects of spillover on the earth’s atmosphere, the environment, satellites and downwind populations should suffice as a rationale for invoking Article Five (the alliance’s collective defence clause).

Second, we should help the Ukrainian military prepare. An EMP strike is survivable. We should support them in conducting live EMP drills with the participation of the civilian authorities. The Ukrainian people need to be educated about how to mitigate and overcome such an attack, including by stocking up on analogue radios, flashlights and batteries. Preparation, fortitude, ingenuity and self-reliance are already qualities with which Ukrainians have distinguished themselves in this war.

Finally, we must rethink our objectives. If Putin is indeed contemplating the use of a tactical EMP, then what is at stake is not just Ukraine’s liberty but the very future of warfare. If we yield to the Kremlin’s nuclear blackmail, there is a risk that other countries will follow its lead: China and North Korea already have EMP capabilities. The situation in Ukraine offers a keyhole glimpse to a potentially more dangerous and uncertain future. We cannot afford to lose this fight.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
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Of course the war is salvageable.
Surovokin clearly wants to concentrate on fronts he think matters and which are practical.
Clearing up the incoherent mess left by others is just good management.
Whatever problems the river caused for Russia are just as much problems for the Ukrainians as well.
If you can't look at the Russian front lines and hear the words "Strategic Depth" and "Shorten those front lines" ringing in your heads, then they should be.

Think through any possible offensive in West Kherson that might have been launched. Yes, with 100,000 plus extra forces an offensive could easily be successful, easy to push the territory control out far enough to take the bridges out of range, but what do you end up with. Lost opportunity in the East, because you cant launch two major offensives with the numbers you have, and as a consequence another long sausage of territory, which doubles the length of your total front lines. All of which in the West would be exposed to the Ukrainian heartlands where their reckless disregard for their own casualties would tie you down en mass in what would be Donbass two.

Far better to concentrate force and take territory in the East. Shorten the front lines, shorten your supply lines and hand all the problems to the other side.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Of course the war is salvageable.
Surovokin clearly wants to concentrate on fronts he think matters and which are practical.
Clearing up the incoherent mess left by others is just good management.
Whatever problems the river caused for Russia are just as much problems for the Ukrainians as well.
If you can't look at the Russian front lines and hear the words "Strategic Depth" and "Shorten those front lines" ringing in your heads, then they should be.

Think through any possible offensive in West Kherson that might have been launched. Yes, with 100,000 plus extra forces an offensive could easily be successful, easy to push the territory control out far enough to take the bridges out of range, but what do you end up with. Lost opportunity in the East, because you cant launch two major offensives with the numbers you have, and as a consequence another long sausage of territory, which doubles the length of your total front lines. All of which in the West would be exposed to the Ukrainian heartlands where their reckless disregard for their own casualties would tie you down en mass in what would be Donbass two.

Far better to concentrate force and take territory in the East. Shorten the front lines, shorten your supply lines and hand all the problems to the other side.
The problem is Russia is not making territorial gains elsewhere. At this point Russia is just passively waiting for collapse of Ukrainian state and western aid, and hope it happens before Ukraine push them back to Crimea.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Of course the war is salvageable.
Surovokin clearly wants to concentrate on fronts he think matters and which are practical.
Clearing up the incoherent mess left by others is just good management.
Whatever problems the river caused for Russia are just as much problems for the Ukrainians as well.
If you can't look at the Russian front lines and hear the words "Strategic Depth" and "Shorten those front lines" ringing in your heads, then they should be.

Think through any possible offensive in West Kherson that might have been launched. Yes, with 100,000 plus extra forces an offensive could easily be successful, easy to push the territory control out far enough to take the bridges out of range, but what do you end up with. Lost opportunity in the East, because you cant launch two major offensives with the numbers you have, and as a consequence another long sausage of territory, which doubles the length of your total front lines. All of which in the West would be exposed to the Ukrainian heartlands where their reckless disregard for their own casualties would tie you down en mass in what would be Donbass two.

Far better to concentrate force and take territory in the East. Shorten the front lines, shorten your supply lines and hand all the problems to the other side.
What happens on the front lines doesn't matter if you give your enemy a safe haven to operate from. In Vietnam it was Cambodia/Laos, in Afghanistan it was the Pakistan tribal areas. Ukraine doesn't even need to depend on Poland, the entire of west Ukraine is a safe haven for them.

I think the Russians will eventually learn from their mistakes so it's fine. Just so long as they don't sign a peace treaty or make any kind of deal with the Ukrainians. They need to keep the war going as long as it takes to achieve their objectives. If the war takes 4 years and ends in Ukraine being reabsorbed by Russia, in 100 years no one will care how badly the war started off.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
What happens on the front lines doesn't matter if you give your enemy a safe haven to operate from. In Vietnam it was Cambodia/Laos, in Afghanistan it was the Pakistan tribal areas. Ukraine doesn't even need to depend on Poland, the entire of west Ukraine is a safe haven for them.

I think the Russians will eventually learn from their mistakes so it's fine. Just so long as they don't sign a peace treaty or make any kind of deal with the Ukrainians. They need to keep the war going as long as it takes to achieve their objectives. If the war takes 4 years and ends in Ukraine being reabsorbed by Russia, in 100 years no one will care how badly the war started off.
At current rate they are going another year later Russians are out of Crimea. 4 years later Ukrainians will be in Moscow.
 
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