Fourth Taiwan Strait Crisis

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zgx09t

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Hmmm..k
How about quietly dropping NFU just for a starter? That'd for sure increase the room temperature right away.
You know, China, with a long rich history and culture, is a class of its own, it's not a thuggish banana republic running wild with technicals.
 

GodRektsNoobs

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USS Ronald Reagan and her CSG has left SCS and entered Philippine Sea via San Bernardino Strait.
This in no way says crisis is over, in an actual shooting war you would expect CSGs to operate from Philippine not the SCS bathtub.
This might be an sign of escalation actually. Any US carrier in SCS would be juicy targets for YJ-21s.
 

tphuang

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Here is a recent tweet by Elbridge Colby. I tend to think he is very representative of the China hawk foreign policy establishment in DC (could be wrong here)
If he is saying this, then maybe the people in DC realized they misread the situation and that they overstepped the boundary and got too close to China's red line. I'm hoping that I don't have to post his tweet again anytime soon.

As things stand, I would not be surprised if Pelosi goes to Taiwan unofficially or quietly. And China retaliates with more live firing or large intrusion past the median lines. And make getting past median line the new norm. But thankfully, I think this is something both sides could live with.

And I hope that the foreign policy establishment is realizing that America does not want to fight a 2 front war while the economy is already in a free fall. The world does not need a Taiwan conflict. It has been pushing China step by step over the past 6 years with increasing public support of Taiwan, but they have finally hit the wall on where things have to stop. And maybe they are getting a lesson from people with more realistic view of the situation in DoD (@Patchwork_Chimera has been mentioning of that). I would hope we don't get anything like this for the remainder of Biden's term. And if Trump's social media post is anything to go by, he is not looking forward to any real conflict with China.

I don't know if Tsai and DPP will learn any lesson from this. But I'm hoping that they realize China is not to be messed with. It seems to me that every DPP administration needs to learn this lesson. They are some of the most irresponsible people in this world. Basically, they want to poke China hard and waiting for America to bail them out and do nothing to defend themselves.
 

tphuang

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I don't see how the Old Hag can do that while flying an official US government VIP airplane into Taiwan with other Congressional members in tow.
When several senators visited earlier this year, what did they travel in? I really don't recall.

I don't know, will have to wait and see. If they sneak her in unannounced (could happen), it will still be an obvious step down imo. Depending on who you are, that would be an embarrassment. At least that's what the china hawks would think.
 

reservior dogs

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Forgive me if I make some blatantly obvious statements here, I'm just thinking aloud, putting my own thoughts in order re: Taiwan.

The status quo whereby Taiwan is not a declared or recognised sovereign state, but in practice enjoys most of the characteristics thereof, reflects a trilateral balance of power and interests between the PRC, ROC and USA. No party has been entirely satisfied with that status quo, but each has preferred it to the alternatives on offer.

In recent years, however, the set of interests and considerations that have previously supported this trilateral status quo have been progressively undermined by each party to the triangle.

The PRC's growing military strength increasingly tempts Beijing to fulfil its ideological commitments and "resolve" the issue of Taiwan by force, while ongoing economic development, including reorientation of the economy to one based upon domestic consumption, leads PRC officials to look upon the costs of such a path with less horror than before.

Under the DPP, the ROC's commitment to the status quo is also undermined, in that a powerful faction within the DPP is ideologically opposed to the foundational idea that supports the status quo, i.e. that Taiwan is indeed part of China. Alarmed by changes in the material balance of power between the ROC and PRC, and emboldened by commitments and expressions of support from putative allies, the ROC under the DPP is thus increasingly tempted to move from de facto to de jure independence.

The USA's commitment to the status quo is fundamentally premised on its desire to maintain a working relationship with the PRC. This was originally a strategic imperative, seeking to exploit the Sino-Soviet split to undermine Washington's principal strategic adversary at the time, the Soviet Union. Following the end of the Cold War, the strategic imperative for maintaining a working relationship with the PRC collapsed, but the relationship continued to be supported on Washington's end by an increasingly strong economic imperative. American corporations, always intimately connected with power in Washington, sought both access to China's vast domestic market, and also to exploit China as a low-cost manufacturing hub to enhance their own profits. As China's economic and technological development has proceeded, China's own corporations have progressively "climbed the value chain" to increasingly challenge Western commercial leadership of sensitive fields, exemplified most clearly by the saga of Huawei and 5G telecommunications infrastructure. The trend over time in Washington has been increasingly to see China as less of an opportunity, and more as a threat, to the point that the relationship today can be described, uncontroversially, as nakedly adversarial. Washington's diminishing commitment to maintaining a working relationship with the PRC increasingly tempts it to undermine the status quo with respect to Taiwan, as for example by abandoning "strategic ambiguity" as a check on the ROC.

Mainstream western discourse takes it as read that the PRC is chiefly if not solely responsible for undermining the status quo with respect to Taiwan. As illustrated, the material conditions that support the triangular status quo are in fact being undermined at all levels. Indeed, I believe that a compelling case can be made that it is the interaction of the USA-ROC axis that is most profoundly destabilising to the peaceful status quo that has prevailed these past decades. An increasingly ambivalent if not antagonistic or indeed nihilistic Washington establishment increasingly emboldens the DPP to make good on its ideological commitments, in turn occasioning increasingly sharp rhetoric from the PRC that results in further deterioration of relations and ratcheting of tensions under the classic paradigm of the "security dilemma".
Largely agree with what you said, but to add a couple of my own thoughts.
The move away from being part of China and into a more independent Taiwan has been part of the U.S. agenda over the decades. What goes on in Taiwan, the education, propaganda, etc, nothing can go on without the approval of the U.S. The people in power are partly there to serve the interests of the U.S. To be fair, the Tsai administration is much further away from the redline compared to Chen Sui Bien.

This trip with Nancy Pelosi, the U.S. is not driven by some longer term strategic calculus as much as it was driven by very short sighted but urgent domestic politics. The Democrats are going to lose and lose big in the mid terms. Nancy desperately needed something to help her party and wanted to risk a short term confrontation to gain some brownie points for her party. In the past, the Chinese regularly waived off such visits without too much excitement. However, this time, they seems to want to use this opportunity to confront the U.S. The Chinese do not do this lightly. In the past, they always err on the side of caution. To do this means they are not only fully ready to confront the U.S. militarily, but were looking for an opportunity to do so. Nancy just provided them with one.

I don't think they will shoot down the plane Nancy is on, but very strong electronic interference to the point of crashing the plane is possible. If the Chinese use electronic warfare on the plane that Nancy Pelosi is on, there is not much the U.S. military can do. They can't block a determined fleet of J-16D planes from doing electronic warfare on a single slow commercial or even military transport plane. If the plane crashes and Nancy dies, the Chinese will say they are not responsible. The big question at that point is, what the U.S. will do? If we said the Chinese are responsible, we cannot just let it go without a strong response, but are we ready to take on the Chinese either militarily or economically? It seems to me that we are in no condition to do either. Whatever the outcome, the Chinese will win quite big.
 
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