Trade War with China

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tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
Real strength would be to end trade. Has that happened? You think the US was prepared? Trump believed outsourcing could end overnight and American workers would have their jobs back overnight. Did that happen? Trump thought Chinese exports to the US would drop. It shot up! Would we be seeing Trump whining about Chinese retaliation to his tariffs as being prepared? Trump's trade advisor, Peter Navarro, said no country would dare retaliate to US tariffs. You think everything has to happen overnight or immediately you call failure. So by your standard, the US has failed.

Don't worry about Trump's original goal. He started out supported by the blue collared populists. But now all the conservatives are jumping into his bandwagon. It's the conservative force behind Trump now that matters.

Trump is just their attack bull dog.
He's a tool.
 
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tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
He's going around in circles again. He's only got 2 ideas that he chooses from at random to repeat every time he feels left out and wants to join a conversation. First one was "China needs to build its own semiconductors." Duh, in process. Second one is that China's losing the trade war because America's screaming louder. It's been explained to him several times before that results, not level of aggression, indicate the winner. China looks less aggressive than the US, but the results are that the trade surplus as increased, China's GDP growth is stable and strong, MIC2025 has only gained more steam (although it is no longer boasted about in the media) while US GDP growth is expected to decline heavily going forward, America has already lost tens of billions of dollars (sources below), US farmers are burying crops they can't sell because they also can't afford to build steel shelters for them due to the rising cost of steel, etc... He doesn't answer any of these counter-posts; he just repeats what he said again and again. To him, there are no results; yelling louder is winning LOL

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Trade war costs US $40 billion in exports
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Trade war costs US consumers $19 billion

Duh, the devil is the details.
Every one knows about the goal.
It's the implementation that accomplished the goal is what matters.
One liner about the goal is worthless and shown one is not really in the industry.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
I'm curious how losing tens of thousands of jobs, losing the agricultural sector, losing in export numbers and embarrassing the nation internationally in exchange for... pretty much no gains... translates into a "position of strength".

If Trump had any say, it would not be him begging for negotiations and truce.

China was well prepared, just not in the way you want it to be. You would prefer them to go out there and take stabs at the US economy with the intent of bringing it down with no regards for casualties they will take doing so, but the priority of the government is to defend domestic livelihoods, which it has been exceptionally successful at.

If China had been aggressive, it would have hurt it's standing. Because it refrained from unfair conduct and only replied "by the book", it was able to sway Italy into BRI and make EU sign large deals. Chinese companies have also benefited from honesty instead of relying on government backed cheating. That's why Huawei rose while Apple sank.

By going "all out" like sanctioning America, kidnapping American citizens, dumping US debt, using Russia as resource backing proxy etc, China could likely kill the US economy. But after "defeating" America, no one would ever fully trust China again. The rest of the world will think "If they can do so against America, they can do so against us one day too". And many Chinese citizens who have work connected to America would have their lives ruined.

The rational decision is to entrench the economy, mow down every attack and incur unacceptable losses to the enemy. Then slowly advance while offering ceasefire, like the real soldiers in the 1962 war did. That is the best way to win a conflict in the long term.

That's not quite what i am talking about.

Alot of it are just your opinions.

But the facts in front of everybody are it's China now changing their policies trying to accommodate US.

US doesn't change anything. It's not hard to see who's negotiating from position of strength and who's from position of weakness.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Don't worry about Trump's original goal. He started out supported by the blue collared populists. But now all the conservatives are jumping into his bandwagon. It's the conservative force behind Trump now that matters.

Trump is just their attack bull dog.
He's a tool.

You mean Trump is going to be worse for the US? LOL!!!!!
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
That's not quite what i am talking about.

Alot of it are just your opinions.

But the facts in front of everybody are it's China now changing their policies trying to accommodate US.

US doesn't change anything. It's not hard to see who's negotiating from position of strength and who's from position of weakness.

We haven't seen the final text yet on the trade agreement Not sure even if they have agreement yet So how do you know that China is caving in and what changes are you talking about ?Allowing western automaker to wholly owned car manufacturing ? I think that is to be applauded move. China need to wean off the domestic automaker from depending on the western car technology.. So long they make their profit from joint venture they become lazy and not investing in their own technology.

Chinese car industry need to consolidate into 10 big manufacturer Right now there are too many car companies in China
So sooner or latter Chinese car manufacture has to stand on their own 2 feet

Allowing foreign Banking and investment to open branch in China? Here too is about time China provide competition to domestic banking They become so large that western companies is not going to make a dent on the share of their banking business But competition is good So many small companies in China have trouble securing loan from domestic bank

Competition make the economy more efficient and China will continue opening up But at her own speed and not due to pressure form outside
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Duh, the devil is the details.
Every one knows about the goal.
It's the implementation that accomplished the goal is what matters.
One liner about the goal is worthless and shown one is not really in the industry.
It's worth as much as your repeating the line that China needs to work on semiconductors. If you know any technical details to improve the situation, talk to Beijing. If they tell you to go home, then you don't know as much as you think. Watch the show like the rest of us. Telling us again and again of the dire need for Chinese semiconductors (in the wrong thread) is the most worthless thing on here.

The focus of my last comment was clearly on trade, and you've ignored it... in the trade war thread...
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
now I read
Reward and punishment when trading with China
  • Canada and Australia are feeling the brunt of Beijing’s wrath over Huawei, while Kaohsiung’s mainland-friendly mayor is reaping benefits
Published: 10:30pm, 31 Mar, 2019
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In both cases (Canada and Australia) it wasn't China that started the fight.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
We haven't seen the final text yet on the trade agreement Not sure even if they have agreement yet So how do you know that China is caving in and what changes are you talking about ?Allowing western automaker to wholly owned car manufacturing ? I think that is to be applauded move. China need to wean off the domestic automaker from depending on the western car technology.. So long they make their profit from joint venture they become lazy and not investing in their own technology.

Chinese car industry need to consolidate into 10 big manufacturer Right now there are too many car companies in China
So sooner or latter Chinese car manufacture has to stand on their own 2 feet

Allowing foreign Banking and investment to open branch in China? Here too is about time China provide competition to domestic banking They become so large that western companies is not going to make a dent on the share of their banking business But competition is good So many small companies in China have trouble securing loan from domestic bank

Competition make the economy more efficient and China will continue opening up But at her own speed and not due to pressure form outside

At the beginning China went on tit-for-tat mode in countering US tariffs but now softened its stance.

Some of things we can observed since China softened its stance. They are concessions to accomodate US

1)No need for JV. Foreign companies can solely owned an operation in China
2)Get rid of most tariffs against US. (while US tariffs still on against China).
4) Start to purchase agriculture and pork product again
5)Passed laws to punish those in China doing forced transfer of tech
6)Greater access to financial and service sectors.

Many of the former presidents and premiers are against Xi, including Hu, Wen, zhang and currently Li. That's why Xi softened the stance.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
At the beginning China went on tit-for-tat mode in countering US tariffs but now softened its stance.

Some of things we can observed since China softened its stance. They are concessions to accomodate US

1)No need for JV. Foreign companies can solely owned an operation in China
2)Get rid of most tariffs against US. (while US tariffs still on against China).
4) Start to purchase agriculture and pork product again
5)Passed laws to punish those in China doing forced transfer of tech
6)Greater access to financial and service sectors.

Many of the former presidents and premiers are against Xi, including Hu, Wen, zhang and currently Li. That's why Xi softened the stance.

I dont know where you get it but I haven't seen all those that you listed You must get it from Taiwan press aka Fake news quoting from western media
1 only apply to car industry which what China promise when they entered WTO long time ago, And it is about time Chinese car industry is lazy because they got most of their profit from JV
Conventional car industry is coming to and end anyway and China is leading in NEV.
2 No such thing
4 They bought small amount of Soybean No pork sofar. It is more symbolic than anything The mid west farmer still suffering with increasing suicide and bankruptcy
5 Forcing some one to hand technology is a no no and that has been Chinese policy for a long time Now they codified it nothing wrong with it
6 Again promise when China enter WTO membership. Now Chinese bank and finance is so large it won't make any difference
 
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