Trade War with China

Hendrik_2000 said:

It is ironic US complaint China subsidized their SOE to the detrimental of US company competitiveness or distorted the "free market"
Now this ruling make a mocker of the above allegation

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WTO confirms US failed to fully comply over Boeing subsidies

The World Trade Organization ruled in March 2012 that billions of dollars of subsidies to Boeing were illegal and notified the United States to bring them to an end (AFP Photo/Jason Redmond)
Geneva (AFP) - The World Trade Organization confirmed Thursday that Washington failed to fully comply with a 2012 order to halt subsidies to Boeing, marking a partial victory for rival aircraft maker Airbus and the EU.

The ruling from the WTO appeals body was the latest blow in the decade-long clash between the titans of the civil aircraft industry, which has seen both Airbus and Boeing score points along the way.

The WTO ruled in March 2012 that billions of dollars of subsidies to Boeing were illegal and notified the United States to bring them to an end.

But just a few months later, the European Union filed a new complaint with the global trade body, alleging that Washington was not complying with that order.

In a ruling published in June 2017, the WTO said the US had brought 28 of 29 programmes into compliance, but agreed with Brussels that Washington had not taken "appropriate steps to remove the adverse effects or ... withdraw the subsidy" in the case of Washington State.

Both the EU and the US appealed that finding to the WTO Appellate Body, which on Thursday basically toed the same line as the 2017 panel, although it appeared to take a harsher line against the American-side.

It found there were other subsidy programmes, including in South Carolina, which did not conform with the 2012 ruling, but in several of them it said it had been unable to complete the legal analysis to determine if the subsidies had an adverse effect on competitors' sales.

Both the EU and the US claimed victory after the ruling landed.

In its own statement, Airbus described the ruling as a "major win" and warned that if without a settlement, the US "will face billions in countermeasures."

Boeing meanwhile maintained that the WTO appeals body had "rejected every allegation of unlawful subsidies to Boeing with the single exception of one measure," referring to Washington State.

"Boeing will support the United States and Washington State as they take steps necessary to fully comply with today’s ruling," the company said.

"We trust that our example will prompt Airbus and the European Union to immediately bring themselves into full compliance with the substantial rulings against these parties by the WTO," it added.

The EU has also been reprimanded by the WTO during the tit-for-tat conflict between Airbus and Boeing, and the US aircraft maker suggested last year that billions in sanctions might also be applied against the bloc.

The WTO, which aims to create a level playing field in global trade, does not have the ability to force compliance with its rulings, but can approve retaliatory measures which in theory can pressure trade manipulators to fall into line.

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This happened in nearly every US tech industry:
1. Federal research in state of the art leads to new companies.
2. Companies require US government to subsidize/purchase its equipment to stay alive and be competitive.
3. Federal funded Universities pump out students for said companies
4. IP Protection and lobbying allowing these companies to crush rising competitors.

US would have lost the semiconductor race to Japan if Japan wasn't gimped from the start.

In other words Trump doesn't want to slap further tariffs because those are the ones that will affect American corporations the most and the US stock market will tank. Use Trump logic that he's claiming credit for the Chinese stock market going down yet Chinese exports to the US are bigger than ever. So where is China losing money because of Trump for the Chinese stock market to go down? An extension is really kicking the can further down the road. He doesn't want to increase tariffs because the US will suffer but doesn't want to end the trade war because everyone will look at it as Trump backing off also known as losing the trade war game of chicken.

Trump is demanding as a part of the deal that China not retaliate if the US chooses to punish China further. Trump also wants to keep current tariffs on China while China has to end its tariffs on the US. So what if China slaps tariffs anyway? Is the US going to threaten to nuke China? Maybe Trump will demand a promise from China not to nuke the US back if he does that?

BEHOLD !! MORE SHAMELESSLY BLATANT US HYPOCRISY !



State Dept. believes US legal residents are being held in Chinese detention camps
By and , CNN
Updated 1109 GMT (1909 HKT) March 29, 2019

(CNN)State Department sources say they know American residents -- either US citizens or people with legal status in the United States -- are being held in detention camps in Xinjiang, China.

When asked if there were many, one of the sources said, "No, a few."
They were unable to disclose more details due to privacy concerns, for the time being.

At a State Department briefing Thursday, Ambassador at Large for International Religious Freedom Sam Brownback said he had a new, unconfirmed report about a man in California whose father, a legal US resident, had not been heard from since returning to Xinjiang.
"He had legal status being here, traveled back to Xinjiang after being here with his son in California. And then has not been heard from since. And he's deeply concerned about whether, what his treatment is. He has a number of chronic illnesses, he's a 75-year-old man and an intellectual," Brownback said.
The estimated that China "arbitrarily detained 800,000 to possibly more than two million Uyghurs, ethnic Kazakhs, and other Muslims in internment camps designed to erase religious and ethnic identities."

"International media, human rights organizations, and former detainees reported security officials in the camps abused, tortured, and killed some detainees," the report noted.
"And it's not just the camps anymore. Entire villages are being encased and people limited on their movement in and out, of the villages in that region that's occurring as well. The situation continues and in some cases appears to be escalating, not de-escalating," Brownback said Thursday.
Former detainees say they were forced to endure intensive brainwashing sessions, including close studies of Communist Party propaganda. The Chinese government has defended these camps as a means of fighting what they claim is a rising tide of extremism in Xinjiang.
The Chinese government claims that the camps are "vocational and educational training centers for counter-terrorism and de-radicalization purposes."
Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang hit back Friday, saying Beijing "is firmly opposed to the US attempt to use the Xinjiang issue to interfere in China's internal affairs."

"As we have stated repeatedly, the overall situation is stable in China's Xinjiang region, which has seen a favorable trend in economic development," he said.
He said he has no information regarding Americans being held in camps in Xinjiang and expressed "firm opposition" to Brownback's remarks.
Brownback said he raised the issue a few weeks ago with Chinese officials at the UN, who first denied anything was happening and then said they were "vocational training camps."
"To which I said, 'I get and have lists of names, hundreds of names that are sent to me, that can't find their relatives,'" he said.
"We are advocating strongly against these actions that the Chinese government is doing and continues to do," Brownback said.
The State Department on Thursday night reiterated its travel advisory for US citizens going to China, warning specifically of "extra security measures in the Xinjiang Uigher Autonomous Region."

"We are committed to providing all possible consular assistance to US citizens in need abroad," a State Department spokesman said. "However, China does not recognize dual nationality. This means that China may prevent the US Embassy from providing consular services in some cases, and US-Chinese citizens and US citizens of Chinese heritage may be subject to additional scrutiny and harassment."
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who this week met with Uyghur refugee and several other members of the Uyghur community, has denounced the human rights violations in China.

"This is one of the worst human rights countries that we've seen since the 1930s," he said in a mid-March interview.
CNN's Michael Conte and Steven Jiang contributed to this report.





I am curious, are americans so retarded they don't see their own hypocrisy?

So americans are going to jail Meng Wan Zhou - a CHINESE national IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY on trump up charges during a trade negotiation......
But wait a damn second! "Some" of those Uyghurs in CHINA "may be" American citizen now it is a different tune - "YOU CAN"T TOUCH THEM!"

How about the human rights of Meng Wan Zhou huh?
How about all those detainees of Guantanamo Bay ?
How about tens of thousands of supposedly "illegal immigrants"?





Where are their human rights?


"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?



This reminds me of that scene in the movie

Forum stalled on me and for some reason it got posted 3 times.

now I read
China, U.S. hold 8th round of trade talks in Beijing
Xinhua| 2019-03-29 22:15:13

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Chinese Vice Premier Liu He, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin co-hosted the eighth round of China-U.S. high-level economic and trade consultations in Beijing from Thursday to Friday.

The two sides discussed the related text of an agreement and achieved new progress.

Liu, a member of the Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China Central Committee and chief of the Chinese side of the China-U.S. comprehensive economic dialogue, was invited to visit the United States next week for the ninth round of high-level economic and trade talks in Washington D.C.

Click to expand...

now I read
21:36, 31-Mar-2019
China continues to suspend additional tariffs on U.S. cars, auto parts

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China will continue to suspend additional tariffs on U.S. vehicles and auto parts, according to a notice issued by China's Ministry of Finance on Sunday.

In order to implement the consensus reached by the presidents of the two countries in Argentina and continue to create a positive atmosphere for bilateral economic and trade consultations, the Customs Tariff Commission of China's State Council has decided to continue suspending additional tariffs on U.S. cars and auto parts, the notice said.

The decision will take effect from April 1, 2019.

Chinese President Xi Jinping and his U.S. counterpart Donald Trump agreed not to impose new additional tariffs during their meeting in Argentina in December last year.

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tidalwave said:

It means US is negotiating from a position of strength ,it can throw all kinds of BS at China and China has to listen to it carefully
China didn't prepare for this trade war during its good times and caught them by surprise. Got caught up that it's indispensable to US and believe too much in win-win, which sounded so gay, solution.

Had it well prepared, it will tell US to take a hike.

It is what it is.

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Real strength would be to end trade. Has that happened? You think the US was prepared? Trump believed outsourcing could end overnight and American workers would have their jobs back overnight. Did that happen? Trump thought Chinese exports to the US would drop. It shot up! Would we be seeing Trump whining about Chinese retaliation to his tariffs as being prepared? Trump's trade advisor, Peter Navarro, said no country would dare retaliate to US tariffs. You think everything has to happen overnight or immediately you call failure. So by your standard, the US has failed.

tidalwave said:

It means US is negotiating from a position of strength ,it can throw all kinds of BS at China and China has to listen to it carefully
China didn't prepare for this trade war during its good times and caught them by surprise. Got caught up that it's indispensable to US and believe too much in win-win, which sounded so gay, solution.

Had it well prepared, it will tell US to take a hike.

It is what it is.

Click to expand...

I'm curious how losing tens of thousands of jobs, losing the agricultural sector, losing in export numbers and embarrassing the nation internationally in exchange for... pretty much no gains... translates into a "position of strength".

If Trump had any say, it would not be him begging for negotiations and truce.

China was well prepared, just not in the way you want it to be. You would prefer them to go out there and take stabs at the US economy with the intent of bringing it down with no regards for casualties they will take doing so, but the priority of the government is to defend domestic livelihoods, which it has been exceptionally successful at.

If China had been aggressive, it would have hurt it's standing. Because it refrained from unfair conduct and only replied "by the book", it was able to sway Italy into BRI and make EU sign large deals. Chinese companies have also benefited from honesty instead of relying on government backed cheating. That's why Huawei rose while Apple sank.

By going "all out" like sanctioning America, kidnapping American citizens, dumping US debt, using Russia as resource backing proxy etc, China could likely kill the US economy. But after "defeating" America, no one would ever fully trust China again. The rest of the world will think "If they can do so against America, they can do so against us one day too". And many Chinese citizens who have work connected to America would have their lives ruined.

The rational decision is to entrench the economy, mow down every attack and incur unacceptable losses to the enemy. Then slowly advance while offering ceasefire, like the real soldiers in the 1962 war did. That is the best way to win a conflict in the long term.

now I read
Reward and punishment when trading with China

• Canada and Australia are feeling the brunt of Beijing’s wrath over Huawei, while Kaohsiung’s mainland-friendly mayor is reaping benefits

Published: 10:30pm, 31 Mar, 2019

Pavlovian conditioning is not something that usually comes to mind when dealing with international politics. But that seems to be a key method of China’s foreign policy nowadays.

Given the scale of the country’s demands for commodities from agriculture to heavy industry, Beijing can easily offer to buy massively from a resource-rich country as reward or withhold purchases as punishment, as it suits its interests at any given time.

Han Kuo-yu, the popular mayor of Kaohsiung and likely Kuomintang presidential candidate next year, has just returned to Taiwan after a whirlwind tour of Hong Kong, Macau and the mainland, during which he secured HK$1.1 billion worth of deals in agriculture and fisheries for his farming and business constituents. Han returned home to a hero’s welcome, though separatists on the island including those from the Democratic Progressive Party, have denounced him as a traitor.

Canadian farmers are not so lucky. Ever since the detention of Huawei’s No 2 Sabrina Meng Wanzhou in Vancouver at the request of the Americans for possible extradition, relations between Canada and China have reached their lowest point in years.

In its latest round of punishment for Canada, China has banned imports of canola, the country’s No 1 cash crop, from two major suppliers while mainland importers have virtually stopped all purchases of Canadian canola.

In a normal year, 40 per cent of Canadian canola seeds are sold to China, which accounts for 17 per cent of all Canadian exports to the mainland. Ottawa has warned the ban could cost the country C$2 billion (HK$11.75 billion). Mainland inspectors claim pests were found in import samples but outside observers have been quick to link the latest ban to the tussle over Meng.

As it is with Canada’s canola, so it is with Australia’s coal. Though Beijing has denied banning coal imports from Australia, mainland officials have been restricting or delaying their customs processing since February. Analysts estimate the restrictions could cost Australia US$200 million a year. Coal is Australia’s second biggest export earner while its purchases by China – its largest trading partner – accounts for 3.7 per cent of Australian GDP.

Beijing has been angered by recent actions taken by Australia, not the least being its ban on mainland telecoms giants Huawei and ZTE from supplying 5G equipment to the country, following pressure from Washington.

China is hitting America’s allies where it hurts most: their electorate’s wallets.

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Biscuits said:

I'm curious how losing tens of thousands of jobs, losing the agricultural sector, losing in export numbers and embarrassing the nation internationally in exchange for... pretty much no gains... translates into a "position of strength".

If Trump had any say, it would not be him begging for negotiations and truce.

China was well prepared, just not in the way you want it to be. You would prefer them to go out there and take stabs at the US economy with the intent of bringing it down with no regards for casualties they will take doing so, but the priority of the government is to defend domestic livelihoods, which it has been exceptionally successful at.

If China had been aggressive, it would have hurt it's standing. Because it refrained from unfair conduct and only replied "by the book", it was able to sway Italy into BRI and make EU sign large deals. Chinese companies have also benefited from honesty instead of relying on government backed cheating. That's why Huawei rose while Apple sank.

By going "all out" like sanctioning America, kidnapping American citizens, dumping US debt, using Russia as resource backing proxy etc, China could likely kill the US economy. But after "defeating" America, no one would ever fully trust China again. The rest of the world will think "If they can do so against America, they can do so against us one day too". And many Chinese citizens who have work connected to America would have their lives ruined.

The rational decision is to entrench the economy, mow down every attack and incur unacceptable losses to the enemy. Then slowly advance while offering ceasefire, like the real soldiers in the 1962 war did. That is the best way to win a conflict in the long term.

Click to expand...

He's going around in circles again. He's only got 2 ideas that he chooses from at random to repeat every time he feels left out and wants to join a conversation. First one was "China needs to build its own semiconductors." Duh, in process. Second one is that China's losing the trade war because America's screaming louder. It's been explained to him several times before that results, not level of aggression, indicate the winner. China looks less aggressive than the US, but the results are that the trade surplus as increased, China's GDP growth is stable and strong, MIC2025 has only gained more steam (although it is no longer boasted about in the media) while US GDP growth is expected to decline heavily going forward, America has already lost tens of billions of dollars (sources below), US farmers are burying crops they can't sell because they also can't afford to build steel shelters for them due to the rising cost of steel, etc... He doesn't answer any of these counter-posts; he just repeats what he said again and again. To him, there are no results; yelling louder is winning LOL

Trade war costs US $40 billion in exports
Trade war costs US consumers $19 billion